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Message
re: Flat Earth & Antarctica
Posted on 3/8/25 at 4:07 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 3/8/25 at 4:07 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Ussher isn't Scripture.
In the Gospel of Ussher ... right next to where it says the "days" in Genesis were 24 hrs each.
I can see where the Bible reveals a 24-hour day, but I don't see where it describes the Earth as flat.
I know that some use other non-narrative passages to come to such a conclusion but that conclusion is absolutely not necessary from the text.
quote:Yes, God is outside of time, however He interacts with His creation within time.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Also, that verse seems to only be applied to creation by those who believe in an old Earth. Nowhere else in the Bible where it mentions a commonly defined 24-hour day does anyone argue that God is really trying to relay a thousand years. And even if one were to take that literally and apply it to creation, then you'd add 6 or 7 thousand years to the overall timeline, not hundreds of thousands or millions/billions of years.
But that's irrelevant to whether the Earth is flat.
1
Posted on 3/8/25 at 4:29 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:As per usual, your issue is that your hard heart can't understand spiritual things. You don't understand the Bible because you can't, and you can't because you won't.
Aw hell. The poking at Foo is because he believes in one absolutely retarded subject - that the earth is 6000 years old and that there was a global flood about 3500 year ago, because the Bible tells him so. Yet the other shite the Bible tells him about the shape of the cosmos he rejects. He claims to believe in everything the Bible teaches. Therefore he is a hypocrite and a liar
There is no hypocrisy here. I can read the Scriptures according to the analogy of faith, whereby the Bible interprets itself.
Not only does the rest of Scripture assume Genesis 1-3 is a literal, historical narrative, but the context of those chapters actually show that it is written in that style, rather than poetic symbolism or something else. It's pretty clear when the Scripture speaks that way.
Job 37--regarding the spreading out of the skies like a mirror of brass--is not written as a literal and historical narrative in its details, but uses metaphorical language. Just read the chapters immediately before and after it to see the language used to describe truths in a metaphorical way, such as the seas being shut in with doors and being birthed from a womb.
One thing I've noticed with you is that you always interpret the Bible according to non-biblical contexts but you fail to interpret it within its own context.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 5:21 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Where?
I can see where the Bible reveals a 24-hour day
Is This the Garden of Eden?
Posted on 3/8/25 at 5:40 pm to NC_Tigah
The combination of the terms “evening” and “morning” along with numbers (first, second, etc) and “day”. The only times these combinations are used are for 24-hour days.
In addition, the same supposed author (Moses) uses creation as the basis for the 4th commandment, where the Sabbath is a day of rest that is modeled after God’s resting on the seventh day of creation.
The context just doesn’t lend itself to a longer day. It would require reading long ages back into the text based on an existing belief in long ages. The natural reading won’t get you there by itself.
In addition, the same supposed author (Moses) uses creation as the basis for the 4th commandment, where the Sabbath is a day of rest that is modeled after God’s resting on the seventh day of creation.
The context just doesn’t lend itself to a longer day. It would require reading long ages back into the text based on an existing belief in long ages. The natural reading won’t get you there by itself.
This post was edited on 3/8/25 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 3/8/25 at 6:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:False.
The only times these combinations are used are for 24-hour days.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 7:04 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:That's not what I claimed.
False.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Do you have any examples where "day" is used in conjunction with "first" (or another number designating a series of days) and/or "morning" or "evening" where the word "day" means something other than a 24-hour day?
I'm quite aware that the word "day" (yom) can mean different things, such as an age, the daytime (when the sun is out), a 24-hour day, or a season or period of time, but when the word is used as it is in Genesis in combination of other descriptors as I pointed out, it's describing a 24-hour period of time, not an age (long period of time).
And as I also previously pointed out, the verse you gave is not to be used universally to interpret time as noted in the Bible, but describing how God is the ancient of days, outside of time, and therefore very patient concerning the coming judgement of men. If you think that verse is a universal decipher that can help us understand time, then why not claim that the flood waters were on the Earth for 40,000 years (Gen. 7:17), or that Jesus was in the desert for 40,000 years (Matt. 4)?
This post was edited on 3/8/25 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 3/8/25 at 7:43 pm to Squirrelmeister
There's no need for name-calling around here. It detracts from your credibility.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 8:13 pm to Champagne
quote:
There's no need for name-calling around here. It detracts from your credibility.
Believing that the earth is only 6,000 years old nukes your credibility from fricking orbit
Posted on 3/8/25 at 8:27 pm to FutureMikeVIII
quote:Who cares about the age of the Earth when you could be judged for eternity in Hell for your sins against a holy God?
Believing that the earth is only 6,000 years old nukes your credibility from fricking orbit
You should be more concerned with the state of your soul. If you do not turn away from your disobedience to God’s law, and if you do not believe that Jesus, the very Son of God, died to pay the penalty your sins deserve, then you will have to pay that penalty, yourself.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 8:34 pm to Champagne
quote:
There's no need for name-calling around here. It detracts from your credibility.
I’ll be like Jesus and edit my post. Turn the other cheek. Even when he calls me a liar I won’t name call. Thanks for calling me out.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 8:44 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
if you do not believe that Jesus, the very Son of God, died to pay the penalty your sins deserve, then you will have to pay that penalty, yourself.
I’ve never understood how Jesus spending like 36 hrs in hell is equivalent to eternity for you and me.
I guess when god has to loophole his own rules cuz nobody was making it to his lame party, you can make anything make sense.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 8:56 pm to FutureMikeVIII
quote:It wasn’t the time spent on the cross or the amount of pain suffered, but the death, itself, that paid the debt we owe if we receive it by faith.
I’ve never understood how Jesus spending like 36 hrs in hell is equivalent to eternity for you and me.
I guess when god has to loophole his own rules cuz nobody was making it to his lame party, you can make anything make sense.
The reason for this is the infinite value of Jesus as God. In chess, we don’t regard the capture of a pawn and the king as equal, and yet so many see the death of Jesus as no different than the death of a common sinner.
No, Jesus’ life was of infinitely more value than our own. He was perfect and sinless, and we are tainted with sin. He was innocent while we are guilty. He is God and we are merely man.
His infinite value was able to pay the debt of finite creatures. That’s why you need to repent of your offenses against a holy God and put your trust in the God-man who died to take away the guilt of sin. It is the only way to have peace with God and enjoy everlasting communion with Him rather than suffer forever for your offenses.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 9:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That’s why you need to repent of your offenses against a holy God and put your trust in the God-man who died to take away the guilt of sin. It is the only way to have peace with God and enjoy everlasting communion with Him rather than suffer forever for your offenses.
Posted on 3/8/25 at 9:15 pm to FutureMikeVIII
“I’m good…”
None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Posted on 3/8/25 at 9:26 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
None is righteous, no, not one
Posted on 3/8/25 at 9:38 pm to LakeCharles
quote:
quote: First off, im not a flat earther, but I would like to understand why people think the earth is flat. Some people are just so fricking stupid that they like to show it off. Seriously, every planet in the solar system gets to be a ball and we get a pizza? quote: Also, what are theories about Antarctica, aside from what most people believe. This is an interesting topic since most of the continent is covered in ice and we don't know much about it (relative to what there is to know). Mentioning it in a thread about flat earth is a disservice to the topic.
You show you don’t have any knowledge abut the subject. Flat Earth folks don’t believe the other planets are spheres rotating around the sun. They believe the Sun is local and the Earth is fixed and the other planets don’t exist in the way you’re talking about.
Also, Antarctica and Flat Earth ALWAYS go together. Please go do a little research before commenting again
Posted on 3/8/25 at 10:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
There is no hypocrisy here
A major component of creation is the flat earth model with firmament separating waters from the waters. The firmament, the foundations of heaven, the windows of heaven, the foundations of the great deep, the pillars of earth and heavens, the waters above the firmament, and the flat disk earth are not allegorical. You claim to believe the Bible but you reject this part.
quote:
the Bible interprets itself.
That is your dogma, which is baseless, and you use vicious circular logic to justify what you presuppose without evidence.
quote:
Not only does the rest of Scripture assume Genesis 1-3 is a literal, historical narrative,
I agree with this statement, but I find it funny you can say this and claim to believe it and that it is historical yet reject the literal interpretation of Genesis 1:6-8.
The firmament and the waters above the firmament are all over the Bible and it’s obvious the authors believed in this cosmology.
quote:
Job 37--regarding the spreading out of the skies like a mirror of brass--is not written as a literal and historical narrative in its details, but uses metaphorical language.
Uh, no. And it matches Genesis 1, Ezekiel 1, Exodus 24, Psalm 19, Psalm 148, and many others. The raqia (firmament) is firm, solid, and shaped like a vault or dome over the circle of the earth (flat disk). It’s right there in the Bible and I know you can read it. It’s not allegorical, but you are very good at making excuses for whatever you want to believe.
The ancient Israelites, Persians, and Egyptian believed in the flat earth with firmament cosmology. The church fathers wrote about the firmament and flat earth. Other Jewish scriptures the Christian’s preserved such as 1 Enoch and Jubilees often bring up the flat earth / firmament cosmology. The Christian church fathers believed in the flat earth and firmament. Even in the late Middle Ages the church repressed scientists and explorers who tried to show the evidence of the spherical earth.
quote:
One thing I've noticed with you is that you always interpret the Bible according to non-biblical contexts but you fail to interpret it within its own context.
I take the entire body of Christian scripture into context, not just what some corrupt Catholics deemed to be canon. “The Bible” is just a construct and isn’t the end all of Christian scripture. But we don’t need extra biblical attestations to flat earth / firmament / waters above biblical cosmology, even though they exist in large quantities. All we need is the Bible to see what it says, and you reject it.
Is this allegorical or metaphorical from your boy Paul?
quote:
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
Hey guess how many firmaments (named “heavens”) is taught by the authors of 1 Enoch. Seven.
Guess where Eden, translated as “paradise” is said to be, according to 1 Enoch. In the 3rd Heaven, of course. And what do you know, Paul “knows a guy” who went to the 3rd Heaven and visited paradise. It’s almost like that 1 Enoch book, the one that Jude quotes as prophetical scripture, was a huge influence on Paul.
This post was edited on 3/8/25 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 3/9/25 at 12:45 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:You're lumping in the "flat disk earth" into everything else, which is not necessary. However the "firmament" existed or was understood to exist is not necessary to the Earth being flat, as you mistakenly think the Bible teaches. The Bible is actually silent on the shape of the Earth other than calling it a "circle" (Isaiah 40:22). As usual, you assume too much.
A major component of creation is the flat earth model with firmament separating waters from the waters. The firmament, the foundations of heaven, the windows of heaven, the foundations of the great deep, the pillars of earth and heavens, the waters above the firmament, and the flat disk earth are not allegorical. You claim to believe the Bible but you reject this part.
quote:Baseless? Clearly you haven't studied much Christian theology. You seem to be focused on other religions and seeing how you can force those into the Bible.
That is your dogma, which is baseless, and you use vicious circular logic to justify what you presuppose without evidence.
Also, don't try to switch standards here. If you're going to talk about what the Bible teaches, don't try to go beyond the Bible and talk about "evidence". Get ready to stick to the the standard for Christians if you are going to argue about a Christian belief.
quote:I don't deny the language. I deny your assertion that it requires a flat earth cosmology.
I agree with this statement, but I find it funny you can say this and claim to believe it and that it is historical yet reject the literal interpretation of Genesis 1:6-8.
The firmament and the waters above the firmament are all over the Bible and it’s obvious the authors believed in this cosmology.
quote:Ah there it is. You interpret the "circle" of the Earth to mean a flat disk. Thanks for the confirmation of something that I already suspected.
Uh, no. And it matches Genesis 1, Ezekiel 1, Exodus 24, Psalm 19, Psalm 148, and many others. The raqia (firmament) is firm, solid, and shaped like a vault or dome over the circle of the earth (flat disk). It’s right there in the Bible and I know you can read it. It’s not allegorical, but you are very good at making excuses for whatever you want to believe.
quote:People--including many Christians--have been wrong about a lot of things, but the point is whether or not the Scriptures actually teach the concept, not whether or not some people believed it. I don't think you understand the difference between those two things.
The ancient Israelites, Persians, and Egyptian believed in the flat earth with firmament cosmology. The church fathers wrote about the firmament and flat earth. Other Jewish scriptures the Christian’s preserved such as 1 Enoch and Jubilees often bring up the flat earth / firmament cosmology. The Christian church fathers believed in the flat earth and firmament. Even in the late Middle Ages the church repressed scientists and explorers who tried to show the evidence of the spherical earth.
I believe that Earth is a sphere and that the Bible doesn't teach a flat Earth and yet I'm sure you don't think I'm correct. I'm but one example of a Christian who believes something that you disagree with, and yet you seem to be relying on the testimonies of people long ago that I'm sure you would disagree with on many other things. It's why I'm a sola scriptura Christian, after all: I believe the Bible sets itself up as the final authority for the Church, not other fallible human beings.
quote:
I take the entire body of Christian scripture into context...
not based on your post history. quote::eyeroll: you don't really care about this. You don't believe any of it is actually true. You just want to use it to try to show how Christians are wrong, and you'll pick and choose what texts you want to use to make your point, as you have time and time again. It's why you rely so heavily on non-biblical accounts to attack the Bible and Christianity.
...not just what some corrupt Catholics deemed to be canon. “The Bible” is just a construct and isn’t the end all of Christian scripture.
quote:I agree that we just need to stick with the Bible on this, and it doesn't teach a flat Earth.
But we don’t need extra biblical attestations to flat earth / firmament / waters above biblical cosmology, even though they exist in large quantities. All we need is the Bible to see what it says, and you reject it.
quote:Not allegorical at all. Where does he say Earth is flat?
Is this allegorical or metaphorical from your boy Paul?
quote:Don't care what 1 Enoch teaches as it isn't Scripture. I have no doubt that Paul was familiar with the book, as it was a popular scroll during that time and is even quoted directly in the Bible, and yet it wasn't deemed Scripture by the Jews nor early Church.
Hey guess how many firmaments (named “heavens”) is taught by the authors of 1 Enoch. Seven.
Guess where Eden, translated as “paradise” is said to be, according to 1 Enoch. In the 3rd Heaven, of course. And what do you know, Paul “knows a guy” who went to the 3rd Heaven and visited paradise. It’s almost like that 1 Enoch book, the one that Jude quotes as prophetical scripture, was a huge influence on Paul.
Regardless, you continue to make the assumption that the multiple firmaments indicate a flat Earth when it isn't necessary at all.
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