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Started By
Message
re: Federal Communications Commission set to reverse net neutrality rules
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:04 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:04 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
You want to stifle investment and innovation, go for it.
Quit parroting like a tribal shill. It’s not a good look.
What innovation does net neutrality prevent exactly? Oh yeah, the incredible innovation of monopolistic entities discriminating traffic for monetary gain. Real innovative stuff we got, be a shame if consumers had to live in a world where ISP’s can’t just throttle Netflix until they pay off the ISP or the consumer pays for special access. Or you can’t use YouTube so your isp can funnel you to the shitty imitation video site they set up after another round of consolidation to prime the profit pump because you live in a neighborhood where no alternatives for reliable high speed internet are available and just moving out of your house because your isp is extorting you isn’t a viable option.
This post was edited on 12/14/17 at 12:05 pm
2
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:04 pm to Breesus
quote:
Cox has been the dominant and basically only ISP in my area for high speed internet since I was a teenager. They rarely if ever innovate. They have no need to. Their customer service is atrocious and their infastructure is dogshit.
I just looked up Cox in New Orleans. It looks like their top tier is 300mbps. You had those types of speeds when you were in high school?
When I was in high school, we only had dial up. And I'm not that old.
quote:
quote:
let the government control how much they can charge.
I am not for this at all.
Then you shouldn't be for this.
If the reason for NN is to stop ISPs from something they "might" do. Then this is also a by-product of NN, beacuse this is something the government "might" do. And when have you ever known the government to not exercise a power that they have?
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:05 pm to Breesus
quote:
It will give ISPs such as Cox and Comcast the ability to slow down and speed up certain websites and programs and internet traffic based on their own decisions about content. You will have no say or check on their decisions and no ability to fight it.
Comcast wouldn't be able to do that for starters. Part of their merger with Time Warner.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:07 pm to Breesus
quote:
For instance, Comcast establishes a paid streaming service. It pushes all data to that streaming service as priority super high speed and it throttles Netflix and Hulu and Amazon into massive loading times and picture quality that make them virtually unusable. This kills innovation because no startups will get into the streaming business because it's impossible to fairly compete. What's worse, is you, as the free market, can decide you like Netflix best and want to support it, but it doesn't matter because your ISP won't allow Netflix to operate properly on its system.
In order for this to work for Comcast they must hope that the other embedded Carriers/ISP's in the same market do the same thing, or risk losing subscribers.
If all Carriers/ISP's did this together, you'd have a strong case for market collusion.
However, most carriers try to outdo one another on almost a monthly basis.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:08 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Quit parroting like a tribal shill. It’s not a good look.
You sound angry.
quote:
What innovation does net neutrality prevent exactly?
How much do you know about Title 2 regulation?
quote:
ISP’s can’t just throttle Netflix until they pay off the ISP or the consumer pays for special access. Or you can’t use YouTube so your isp can funnel you to the shitty imitation video site they set up after another round of consolidation to prime the profit pump because you live in a neighborhood where no alternatives for reliable high speed internet are available and just moving out of your house because your isp is extorting you isn’t a viable option.
Great. This has literally nothing to do with my argument against the current NN order. So, maybe don't call me a shill when you don't understand my argument.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:09 pm to Adam Banks
This thread is glorious
I so enjoy witnessing economic arguments that have taken place a dozen times before in American history......... but no one learned from them. LOL
I so enjoy witnessing economic arguments that have taken place a dozen times before in American history......... but no one learned from them. LOL
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:09 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
In order for this to work for Comcast they must hope that the other embedded Carriers/ISP's in the same market do the same thing, or risk losing subscribers.
It would also break up their merger with Time Warner. Comcast is so ready to start throttling speeds and charging extra for different services, that they voluntarily agreed to regulate themselves in such a manner for their merger.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:09 pm to SLafourche07
quote:
just looked up Cox in New Orleans. It looks like their top tier is 300mbps. You had those types of speeds when you were in high school?
Yes we had high speed internet from Cox when I was in high school. I can remember the day we switched from AOL dialup, I was 13. And I didn't say they've never improved but they've been slow as hell to improve and they still have a long way to go and no incentive to speed up.
quote:
the reason for NN is to stop ISPs from something they "might" do
"might"? They were literally caught doing it, sued for it, and NN was born because of it.
quote:
Then this is also a by-product of NN, beacuse this is something the government "might" do
All internet traffic should he treated the same. ISPs can offer tiers of speed as they do now, provided they treat all traffic on each tier equally, and they can charge for excessive data use, but they should in no way have any control over how the traffic is treated based on content.
As for government price protection? ISPs are defacto local monopolies. I don't want the government putting arbitrary price restrictions on them, but someone has to have the ability to check them. And the people and the market have no ability to check the ISPs.
But if I have to decide between possible governmental price controls and ISP content controls?
This post was edited on 12/14/17 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:10 pm to Breesus
quote:
but they should in no way have any control over how the traffic is treated based on content.
THEY ALREADY DO THIS!
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:11 pm to Aristo
quote:
Why would they censor anything?
For money from the people wanting the censoring.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:13 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
they must hope that the other embedded Carriers/ISP's in the same market
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:14 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
In order for this to work for Comcast they must hope that the other embedded Carriers/ISP's in the same market do the same thing, or risk losing subscribers.
If all Carriers/ISP's did this together, you'd have a strong case for market collusion.
However, most carriers try to outdo one another on almost a monthly basis
Roughly half of America has only 1 or fewer definition high speed broadband providers in their area. So yeah, plenty of room to exploit consumers when you are a defacto regional monopoly. Which in fact was beginning to happen more frequently and brazzingly before net neutrality.
One of the core breakdowns in people grasping this issue is the assumption that this is a majority highly competitive marketplace where the companies operating within are price takers and barriers to entry are relatively low. None of which is true. But time and again people come to this discussion under the illusion that the short hand logic they use to think about highly competitive markets can be simply applied to a natural monopoly situation such as this. When it just can not.
This post was edited on 12/14/17 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:15 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
THEY ALREADY DO THIS!
Stupid people are talking here, let them finish.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:15 pm to Breesus
Sorry, you live in a one carrier market?
Sorry, you are either ignoring the absolute fact that your video data is throttled or sent over a specific ration.
I know this, I helped make the TMO application for it
Sorry, you are either ignoring the absolute fact that your video data is throttled or sent over a specific ration.
I know this, I helped make the TMO application for it
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:15 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
but they should in no way have any control over how the traffic is treated based on content.
THEY ALREADY DO THIS!
Example?
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:15 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
What innovation does net neutrality prevent exactly?
I'll respond to that with another question. How can I innovate if I can't shape and manipulate traffic in efforts to ensure a certain current quality of service to my customers?
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:16 pm to boogiewoogie1978
Well that’s that. The one ISP in my region is free to frick me. 
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:17 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Sorry, you live in a one carrier market?
Over half the country does...
quote:
Sorry, you are either ignoring the absolute fact that your video data is throttled or sent over a specific ration.
Again, if all streaming data is throttled equally. I don't have a problem with that provided I have the ability to pay extra for it.
I don't have a problem with the end user being responsible for paying for what he uses.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:17 pm to Breesus
quote:
Example?
Check Verizon / ATT / TMO data plans
Check your bitrate on some ISP's if you are on a capped plan.
In the core, there is a function that literally executes most policy actions.
The ISP's can change these things on a dime if they really wanted too.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:18 pm to LSU316
quote:
How can I innovate if I can't shape and manipulate traffic in efforts to ensure a certain current quality of service to my customers?
The same way they've been innovating? Improving infrastructure to provide faster speeds and more reliable service.
How does the ability to control traffic based on content have anything to do with ISP infastructure innovation?
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