re: FDR, Pearl Harbor, The “Great Man” Myth And The True Historical Record…

They knew war with Japan was imminent. What surprised FDR , etc was that the Japanese would attack Pearl. They figured the Phillipines. Most military strategists at the time thought that Pearl could be subject to harassment by subs....but a large scale aerial attack was thought to be unlikely

It was a most impressive operation devised by Yamamoto. Audacious and he knew it.

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Once again, Roosevelt’s Secretary of War actively discussed how best to provoke Japan: that is a documented fact. Likewise, it is not a conspiracy theory to claim that the Roosevelt Administration engaged in a cover-up to divert blame for its own failures onto military commanders.

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1. You are missing important context. Stimson did indeed write in his diary on November 25, 1941, just two weeks before the Japanese attack, about how discussions were being had at the highest levels of maneuvering Japan into firing the first shot of a potential war. What you fail to mention, however, is that by this time talks between the United States and Japan had already broken down and we knew from the cracking of their diplomatic codes that the Japanese believed hostilities were imminent. Naturally we would want the Japanese to fire the first shot if they believed the two countries were on a collision course. And as has been documented multiple times in this thread, two days after Stimson wrote about maneuvering the Japanese into firing the first shot of a potential war, he had the Chief of Naval Operations send out a message to the high command in the Pacific that war was considered imminent. That's not a cover-up if you are broadcasting it to your operational commanders in the field.

2. No, it's not a conspiracy theory to claim that the Roosevelt Administration engaged in a cover-up to divert blame for its own failures onto military commanders. That's just called politics. If you honestly think that Roosevelt was going to let himself swing for not having the army and navy properly ready for a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor then you are just plain naive.

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Watch the documentary The Final Countdown with Kirk Douglas.

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It almost is a documentary. The scenes shot on the USS Nimitz largely featured actual footage of Navy crewmen conducting drills.



It is an underrated science fiction gem. 5 thumbs up!

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Narax

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Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

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Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

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Agreed, there is no shame being fooled once, FDR as you said did try to find scapegoats for the massive screw up, but now that a number of people have given you buckets of sources and documents that directly refute your claims of an initial hiding of the impending attack from field commanders, it is your call if you want to be "fooled again".

I suspect the attack on Pearl Harbor was orchestrated in orer to get us into the War.
If we were worried about Japan, why did we send our troops to Europe?
I suspect we entered the war to protect the Soviet Union. Germany was invading the Soviet Union.
As Trump has stated, the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans protect the USA. No way Germany or Japan could wage war on the USA successfully.
Too bad Patton didn't live long enough to inform the American people.

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You obviously can’t read or comprehend source documents if you are making such a claim.

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You do know there are multiple people who have given you references to the war orders that Short and Kimmel got in November.

Kimmel and Short literally had a meeting to discuss the messages they had gotten from DC about the war being impending.

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Kimmel ordered USS Enterprise to ferry Marine fighters and pilots to Wake Island to reinforce the garrison, and for USS Lexington to depart Pearl Harbor on December 5 to ferry Marine dive bombers to Midway

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He knew, and he was acting on the instructions he received from Washington, his forces were preparing for an imminent attack, for weeks.

Short was putting in place measures to protect against sabotage at Pearl that would prevent Pearl from supporting exposed positions at Wake and Guam.

They fully knew War was coming soon and were acting on it.

The field commanders just guessed the wrong place.

No one in DC knew Pearl, no one in the field guessed Pearl.

When we realized that Japan was declaring war, the message went out to the Military 20 minutes after it got to the president. Due to a screw up it got to Pearl a few hours late.

But no one guessed that right then and there it was going to be Pearl.

And to note the Philippines got hit 9 hours later, and had plenty of warning.

No one here is denying Roosevelt looked for scapegoats, you keep bringing that up as if anyone here is denying it.

I guess you want the shame of being fooled again.

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Kimmel ordered USS Enterprise to ferry Marine fighters and pilots to Wake Island to reinforce the garrison, and for USS Lexington to depart Pearl Harbor on December 5 to ferry Marine dive bombers to Midway

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So fricking what? I never have claimed Kimmel and Short have no blame for Pearl Harbor. It is a straw man argument you fricking low-wattage moron.

Lend-Lease was blatantly unconstitutional as well.

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That Kimmel and Short were caught flat-footed and did not anticipate an attack at Pearl Harbor does not erase the fact that they were victims of a virulent propaganda campaign by the Roosevelt Administration to unjustly take the lion’s share of the blame for the catastrophic attack.

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See everyone here is fine, and has been fine with that as a line of argument.

The entire thread.

If you have now backed your argument down to that then I have no complaints.