re: FDR, Pearl Harbor, The “Great Man” Myth And The True Historical Record…

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If you exclude the fact that intercepted Japanese communications clearly indicated that war was certain if successful negotiations with the U.S. had not been reached when November came to a close. Again, Naval intelligence was indeed busy throughout November intercepting and encrypting messages that indicated the threat from Japan was building day by day.

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Whether the Roosevelt Administration knew that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor at exactly 7:48 a.m. Hawaiian time on December 7th 1941 is of secondary importance to the fact that the Roosevelt Administration were privy to intercepted intelligence that clearly indicated Japan was planning a military strike against Anglo-American forces. This was no idle threat: Japan — a militaristic culture which extolled the ideal that ritual suicide was preferable to dishonor — had demonstrated in the Second Sino-Japanese War that it possessed a deadly ruthless and efficient military.

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Admiral Kimmel and General short were both sent "war warning"
messages on November 27. They were advised that negotiations were
stalemated and that Japan might take hostile action at any moment.
Admiral Kimmel was ordered to execute a "defensive deployment"
consistent with the us war plan in the Pacific; General short was
ordered to undertake "reconnaissance and other measures ... ", but his
instructions were muddied somewhat by advice to avoid actions that would
"alarm [Hawaii's] civil population or disclose intent."
c. Admiral Kimmel and General short discussed the November 27 war
warning, but concluded that an attack would occur in the western
Pacific, not in Hawaii. Indeed, the November 27 messa~es had mentioned
the likelihood that the attack would occur in "the Philippines, Thai or
Kra Peninsula or .... Borneo." Washington also did not expect Hawaii to
be attacked. Further, it appears that Admiral Kimmel and General short
were depending on timely tactical warning from Washington, should Hawaii
become a target. Military leaders in Washington, on the other hand,
appear to have felt that the November 27 war warning would lead Admiral
Kimmel and General short to heighten their vigilance, and failed to
examine closely what they actually were doing.

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The documented evidence presented in the official Congressional inquiry into the Pearl Harbor attack demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that by December 1 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Secretary of War Henry Stimson were well aware that Japan was going to attack Anglo-American forces — sooner rather than later.

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Washington, Tuesday, November 25

Marshall and Stark attended a “War Council” meeting with the President, Secretary of State Cordell Hull, Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson, and Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox. Were the Japanese bluffing? Hull thought not; rejection of their terms would mean war. “These fellows mean to fight,” he told the group. “You [Marshall and Stark] will have to be prepared.”

Adequate preparation could not be guaranteed by either service chief. The great draft army was still only a partly disciplined mass. The Navy, better prepared for an immediate fight, was still far from ready for an extended period of combat. Marshall urged diplomatic delay. If the State Department could hold war off for even three months, the time gained would be precious, especially in the Philippines, where Douglas MacArthur’s newly raised Commonwealth Army was only partly organized and equipped.

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Further, key officials in the Roosevelt administration were actively seeking to provoke Japan into such an attack.

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Nevertheless, the Roosevelt Administration did not share the full extent of this threat with their military commanders. Roosevelt further assured the American people that good faith diplomatic negotiations with Japan were still in progress when in fact they knew that the Japan was on the brink of an attack.

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Honolulu, Tuesday, November 25

Kimmel and Short had more than a passing interest in the status of our negotiations with Japan. Admiral Kimmel had been kept informed of the increasingly strained relations by frequent frank and newsy letters from Admiral Stark. One of these, dated November 7, had said in part: “Things seem to be moving steadily towards a crisis in the Pacific.…A month may see, literally, most anything…It doesn’t look good.”

Admiral Kimmel undoubtedly was thinking of that letter when he reread the official radio message which he had received the day before, November 24:

Chances of favorable outcomes of negotiations with Japan very doubtful…A surprise aggressive movement in any direction including attack on Philippines or Guam is a possibility. Chief of Staff has seen this dispatch, concurs and requests action addressees to inform senior Army officers their areas. Utmost secrecy necessary in order not to complicate an already tense situation or precipitate Japanese action.

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Finally and perhaps most shamefully, the Roosevelt Administration ascribed responsibility for the Pearl Harbor disaster to be placed solely on General Short and Admiral Kimmel while effectively shielding senior Administration officials from comparable scrutiny. It was a despicable act of scapegoating.

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These issues are immediate and highly emotional to the descendants of
Admiral Kimmel and General short. [lJ Family members feel that the Pearl
Harbor commanders were scapegoats for a disaster that they could neither
prevent nor mitigate, and that others who were blameworthy escaped both
official censure and public humiliation.

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It was a despicable act of scapegoating.

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it was a gross dereliction of duty by the Roosevelt Administration to not inform the military commanders of vulnerable outposts in the Pacific about the increasing evidence that Japan was preparing a major strike against both British and American forces.

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they were advised that negotiations were
stalemated and that Japan might take hostile action at any moment.

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Now, it was suggested elsewhere that to dare question the motives of the Roosevelt Administration when it comes to Pearl Harbor is in some way an affront to Pearl Harbor survivors. Nothing could be further from the truth: we have a sacred duty to inform future generations of Americans that in times of war, moral considerations often may be eclipsed by calculated political manipulation aimed at achieving foreign policy objectives.

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But political scapegoating is not a conspiracy. It's just politics

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Why do you think FDR canned Kimmel and Short but didn't can MacArthur?

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Despite his failure to decisively defend the Philippines, MacArthur consistently had one of the lower casualties rates of any commander in the blood-bowl that was the Pacific Theater of Operations.

This is a remarkable statement considering MacArthur was responsible for the single largest surrender of US forces in history.

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But I'm still curious about how FDR goaded the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor. Apart from the embargo of oil and steel, what actions did he take, exactly?

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Once Japan was cut off from US oil, the strategic objective of the East Indies, and thus the elimination of the Philippine threat, was obvious. Is that justification for continuing to supply Japan with war materiel?

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Narax so now I'm only partly lying as i knew about the USS Arizonia?

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The meeting on NOV 28th is the smoking gun, no minutes of that meeting were kept. In that meeting FDR flat out told Marshall, his sub commander and the 2 Admirals that the US would not strike the first blow and Japan would have to attack first. The US Would not go on full alert, as he wanted the attack to be seen as a surprise attack. No one was to keep any notes of this meeting, but the one person did, and it came out in a book in 1947/8.

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So he was just scribbling away while they spoke and no one noticed?

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He took the notes after the meeting and it was found out during the second investigation of the attack, which can also be found in the record of the second investigation.

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You know what a source is right?

Do you care to provide a source to this thing you claim happened?

Let's see your sources...

Specifically about this second investigation and secret notes

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As discussed in great depth above, the coverup of the Roosevelt Administration’s knowledge of the certainty of a Japanese attack certainly was an orchestrated conspiracy.

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Right now, i am having to reread a book from 1947/8 on the second investigate.

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As we all know a copy of the first investigation runs around 3,000.

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Unfairly maligned"? That's where this all just starts to look like partisan bullshite. MacArthur had 10 hours warning AFTER the actual bombing of Pearl Harbor.

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MacArthur’s relationship with the press was not one of mutual respect, but one of mutual exploitation. He used the press as a tool to craft and project the image he wanted to convey — that of a larger-than-life figure, a mythic hero whose will was unstoppable. While the journalists often had to search for the truth behind his carefully constructed public persona, MacArthur understood that perception was power. He used their stories to solidify his own legend, both in the United States and abroad. William Manchester: American Caesar.

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FDR's socialist policies for dealing with the depression were not only unsuccessful, but in many cases judged to be unlawful. His negotiations with Stalin were shockingly naive and led directly to the Cold War. But his cutting off trade with Japan was not the war he was looking for in Germany. Of all the shite he can reasonably be blamed for, cutting off war materiel and positioning the Pacific Fleet to be able to respond to the subsequent Japanese threat to the Philippines made strategic sense at the time. And, ultimately, FDR gave us the strongest military the world had ever seen.

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You imbuing your bizarre violent impulses upon the Pearl Harbor survivors is what was uncalled for.

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Narax

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