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re: FCC to free Internet From Obama's “Net Neutrality” Rules

Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:37 pm to
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44173 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

There is barely any competition now. Regulation won't make that worse.



What impact does regulation have on entering an existing market?

Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

This is a straw man argument.


In what way?? it is the root of the cause of monopoly ISPs.

quote:

Just be aware that the telecoms that favor this non-enforcement of net neutrality


Uhhh--I suspect the telecoms that are not in the content business and simply in the ISP business ultimately want the protection a government utility will give them.

quote:

also try to limit municipal broadband roll-outs and other forms of competition at the state and local level that will shrink their profits.


Of course they do. THIS is why the attack should be on the local governments. If Congress were tomorrow to say "there shall be no regulation of ISPs by state and local governments" the ISPs would fall all over themselves trying to get the FCC to regulate them and create barrier of entry to competition.
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 12:39 pm
Posted by Tigers0891
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2017
7074 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:37 pm to
Good point. That is often overlooked in the debate around this and many other things. The playing field is not level thanks to crony capitalism and kickbacks. Can't legislate morality or make people do right.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29044 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Hughes Net I will add is available everywhere as an alternative to the the wired ISPs. It's service is much better than it used to be and is fast enough now to stream videos and play games.
Geostationary satellite internet service will NEVER be good enough for gaming. The laws of physics don't allow it. And while it may be fast enough to stream video, that's only until you've watched maybe 2 movies before you hit your soft cap, then you're limited to SD video streaming for the rest of the month. And it's expensive as hell.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
39847 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

there is no free markets in the ISP world.


It’s also heavily regulated and full of cronyism

Austin and KC should be the model. Make it easy for google to lay fiber and let the other ISPs compete. Instead, local municipalities just take kick backs and build red tape
Posted by fooz
DFW
Member since Sep 2011
886 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:40 pm to
Speaking from experience from using Verizon, after you hit 15GB of bandwidth, your hotspot is hardly usable because of the slow speed.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44173 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

Geostationary satellite internet service will NEVER be good enough for gaming. The laws of physics don't allow it. And while it may be fast enough to stream video, that's only until you've watched maybe 2 movies before you hit your soft cap, then you're limited to SD video streaming for the rest of the month. And it's expensive as hell.




All irrelevant to the discussion of ISPs having monopolies or near-monopolies.

Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:41 pm to
quote:


There is barely any competition now.


you must live under a rock
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44173 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

Speaking from experience from using Verizon, after you hit 15GB of bandwidth, your hotspot is hardly usable because of the slow speed.


The discussion is not usability or quality. The discussion is availability.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29044 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

I never said they aren't a thing. I said they aren't a new thing.
I never did, either.
quote:

They aren't. Which is why your original comment was wrong.
My original comment:
quote:

Now data caps are becoming the norm, which is a less direct (though still very effective) way to throttle streaming services.
In what way is that wrong? Data caps have been around for a while, but are now becoming the norm. Several ISPs have begun enforcing them with overage charges in the past year or two.

I don't think you have a reading comprehension problem. I think you simply do not bother to understand something that you've already decided you don't agree with.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44173 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Now data caps are becoming the norm, which is a less direct (though still very effective) way to throttle streaming services.


They aren't becoming the norm, they've been the norm.

Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
93135 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

So you would be OK if an ISP decided to charge you $10/mo for TD.com but let another LSU Board be free?

You know where everyone would go? The free one.

TD.com would cease to exist.


Are the rules in place now that doesnt allow them to do this?
And is this just an example of what they could do?
Posted by LordSaintly
Member since Dec 2005
42032 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

FCC to free Internet From Obama's “Net Neutrality” Rules


This is terrible, and you're terrible for supporting it.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29044 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

No it's not. They're still ISPs.
It's a different beast in the sense that mobile ISPs are simply nowhere near advanced or robust enough to compete with decades-old landlines. If anyone has to consider a mobile ISP for home internet in 2017, the local ISP market has failed them. And it's not government's fault.


The miniscule data caps and subsequent throttling or overage charges are the real killer.
Posted by Dirtman16
Madison, AL
Member since Nov 2012
410 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

In what way?? it is the root of the cause of monopoly ISPs.


It's my opinion that net neutrality is an important standard regardless of the level of competition among ISPs. That's why I consider your argument a straw man.

Your assumption that completely deregulating the Internet will result in a utopia of service provider options (and thus no need for net neutrality) is not realistic. Infrastructure is expensive, property on which to install it is limited (and often owned or leased by competitors), and there is little incentive for established players to compete with each other.

On the wireless side, there are actual physical limitations on available bandwidth. We can't just create more wireless spectrum out of thin air in the same way we can lay new fiber lines. That's why I don't consider them a realistic option for long-term, home or business use. They have limitations as other have stated. Ones I consider reasonable considering the limitations above.
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 12:52 pm
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:51 pm to
Why would an ISP like Charter throttle??

Charter has very little content of it's own to sell.

I suspect they make more money off of a $40 a month internet only service than they make off of a $100 a month TV service. Providing ISP services that content providers can sell their products over is much more profitable than paying content providers like DIsney for their content and then reselling it as cable TV.

Content providers have a lot more competition than before and their ability to price their product at profitable levels is becoming harder and harder (ask ESPN).

These ISP will differentiate themselves with their pipelines and if you want better internet services you should favor the FCC getting out of the business and you should lobby your local government to end regulations too.
Posted by atlgamecockman
Nola
Member since Dec 2012
4304 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:52 pm to
quote:



Are the rules in place now that doesnt allow them to do this?
And is this just an example of what they could do?




Yes.

And yes. They have proposed it already.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:54 pm to
quote:

Your assumption that completely deregulating the Internet will result in a utopia of service provider options (and thus no need for net neutrality) is not realistic. Infrastructure is expensive, property on which to install it is limited (and often owned or leased by competitors), and there is little incentive for established players to compete with each other.



complete BS. You sound like the baby bells of the seventies telling regulators that cell service will not be reliable.
Posted by jawnybnsc
Greer, SC
Member since Dec 2016
5904 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:56 pm to
So, because the fedgov hasn't done something, that means they won't . . . or can't, even though this law makes it explicit that they can. Got it, chief!

Here's an idea . . . how about we dump this stupid law and find a way to address your concerns without the Title II baggage that went along with it?

Educate yourself:

Title II Net Neutrality
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 12:59 pm
Posted by biggsc
Member since Mar 2009
34654 posts
Posted on 11/21/17 at 12:56 pm to
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