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re: FCC plans to vote to overturn U.S. net neutrality rules in December
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:43 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:43 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
The fact that even a single person in here is arguing that this is good for the people makes me lose what little faith I had left in humanity.
0
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:43 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Whatever else you may want to argue, if you can't acknowledge that reality, you are not capable of honesty.
What do you think is going to happen when the major ISPs, protected by the government, control all of the content? Do you think we will get new ISPs? Do you think you will have access to more content? The answers are no and no
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:44 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Generally speaking, in free markets, companies "fear" their competition.
Comcast is provider, content creator, and if they have their way, content controller. That they will have the ability to control traffic and charge more for certain sites isn't an ideal solution. I'd rather they not be all three,
quote:
"Hey, see this imperfection in the market.......can you please pass a law closing that imperfection......it's mere coincidence that my idea for solving it makes me tons of money"..........
I don't think repealing the NN rules will solve this situation. It will certainly make things worse for the consumer.
quote:
You're being worked. It's not the first time for folks who don't understand economics......it won't be the last.
Maybe, but I don't think you are seeing the consequences of this.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:45 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
John Oliver spells it out perfectly.
Amazingly, I have the good sense not to get my economics and business acumen from John Oliver.
I'm sure his education in Theater followed by his extensive Stand-Up experience was useful for being humorous and duping people into thinking he knows what he's talking about........but, yeah. I'm smarter than that.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:48 pm to cahoots
quote:List them for me
What do you think is going to happen when the major ISPs
quote:Define for me how you see this protection being practiced? I tend to oppose govt regulation. Perhaps I will oppose some of it. Lay it out.
protected by the government
quote:I have access to more TV content today than I did 20 years ago.
Do you think you will have access to more content?
I have access to more of basically every product in existence than I had 20 years ago.
So, are you asking me if I will have more access on day 1, or, over time? Because over time, your idea SUCKS in that department.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:48 pm to ShortyRob
I haven’t followed this conversation.
Will I have to pay to get in TD and read Trumpkin drivel? If yes...how much? You guys are entertaining
Will I have to pay to get in TD and read Trumpkin drivel? If yes...how much? You guys are entertaining
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:49 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
And the government is going to make that better?
So you say "an ISP can restrict a site so the government has to take over"
What's to stop the government from doing the same? I can always pick a different ISP. Can't pick a different government.
Actually.. if you believe the system isn't a sham.. you can vote government officials in or out of power. It's harder to get access to a competing ISP than it is to vote a politician out of office
Hughes Net is not competition to Comcast. In most of the country ISPs have monopolized massive regions.
Not much of a choice between:
100 mb/s Comcast + restricted packets + data caps + pay per site
30 mb/s Hughes Net or ATT
If you don't have access to a competitor offering a similar product there is no competition.
This post was edited on 11/17/17 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:50 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
So, are you asking me if I will have more access on day 1, or, over time? Because over time, your idea SUCKS in that department.
I'm saying that your access to content is about to be restricted by doing away with net neutrality because the major ISPs will control the content and no other ISPs will be able to realistically enter the market to provide different content.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Maybe, but I don't think you are seeing the consequences of this.
Free markets are uneven.
It's the fact that they are uneven that has ALWAYS driven people who don't understand economics to be duped into letting govt get involved.
This is driven by an almost absurd(at this point in history) assumption that somehow, government involvement will yield greater market efficiencies.
It will not because it never has.
Basically, big dogs LOVE the fact that average people can be duped by pointing at the market inefficiencies. Average people have a hard time accepting imperfections in human endeavors.
Many people think the solution to imperfections in human endeavors.....oddly, is to transfer management of said human endeavors to.........wait for it....other humans.
I'm not sitting her and telling you companies don't try and take advantage of markets.
I'm telling you that reality is a FEATURE but you think it's a BUG.
I'm correct. You are not.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:53 pm to ShortyRob
Ad hominem attack.
Attack the character, not the message. Solid.
Attack the character, not the message. Solid.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:57 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I'm telling you that reality is a FEATURE but you think it's a BUG.
I'm correct. You are not.
You have a consistently remarkable way of avoiding substantive points. Your myopia is almost breathtaking. I take it you think Comcast should be provider, creator and controller? That you retreat to this idiotic "market" appeal is more evidence that you think you understand the issues, but don't.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 1:57 pm to bmy
quote:
Actually.. if you believe the system isn't a sham.. you can vote government officials in or out of power. It's harder to get access to a competing ISP than it is to vote a politician out of office Hughes Net is not competition to Comcast. In most of the country ISPs have monopolized massive regions. Not much of a choice between: 100 mb/s Comcast + restricted packets + data caps + pay per site 30 mb/s Hughes Net or ATT If you don't have access to a competitor offering a similar product there is no competition.
I know that when I'm thinking about how to expand competition in a market, the first thing I think to do is to make the existing players foot the bill for aspects of their business they have no control over while banning them from using the normal market mechanisms to deal with that.
That typically gets those new cats to come a runnin!!!
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:00 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Says the guy who is 100% focused on today's market as if it's static.
You have a consistently remarkable way of avoiding substantive points
quote:Socialists speak in terms of what "should" exist in markets.
Your myopia is almost breathtaking. I take it you think Comcast should be provider, creator and controller?
quote:If the worst thing you have on me is that I "retreat" to market appeal, I'll wear that with a badge of honor.
That you retreat to this idiotic "market" appeal
You go ahead and retreat to "government regulation appeal". I'm good with that.
quote:We're anonymous Joes on the internet, but, my command of business and economics is pretty fricking on point.
more evidence that you think you understand the issues, but don't.
I'm OK with people who get their economic evaluations from John Oliver disagreeing with me on that.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:02 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Ad hominem attack. Attack the character, not the message. Solid.
Dude. You fricking cited John fricking Oliver.
JOHN
frickING
OLIVER!
What the hell did you expect?
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:02 pm to ShortyRob
On the Political Board people like getting rid of Net Neutrality.
On the OT Lounge, they are outraged.
On the OT Lounge, they are outraged.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:03 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I know that when I'm thinking about how to expand competition in a market, the first thing I think to do is to make the existing players foot the bill for aspects of their business they have no control over while banning them from using the normal market mechanisms to deal with that.
That typically gets those new cats to come a runnin!!!
It's pretty simple and summed up by a single rule:
1) All packets must be treated equally
That's back-breaking regulation if you ask me
Let's look at the providers in my area.. looks to be a thriving free market.
quote:
About Comcast in Nashville, TN 37209
92.4% of residents in this zip code can get XFINITY (Comcast) cable. The fastest internet service the ISP offers here is 250 Mbps, 100.0% of local XFINITY (Comcast) customers can get this download speed
About Windstream in Nashville, TN 37209
Less than 1% of residents in this zip code can get Windstream fiber. The fastest internet service the ISP offers here is 10 Mbps, which is below average speed for residential internet providers in 37209.
About AT&T in Nashville, TN 37209
65.0% of residents in this zip code can get AT&T DSL. The fastest internet service the ISP offers here is 75 Mbps, which is below average speed for residential internet providers in 37209. 1.0% of local AT&T customers can get this download speed.
About HughesNet Satellite Internet
HughesNet satellite internet is probably the best satellite internet-only option available. Remember that while speeds may reach 15 Mbps, the latency of satellite Internet will make it feel like a significantly slower connection.
About Global Capacity in Nashville, TN 37209
0.7% of residents in this zip code can get Global Capacity DSL. The fastest internet service the ISP offers here is 6 Mbps, which is below average speed for residential internet providers in 37209. 9.5% of local Global Capacity customers can get this download speed.
This post was edited on 11/17/17 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:03 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
We're anonymous Joes on the internet, but, my command of business and economics is pretty fricking on point.
Actually it's incredibly shitty and why you're in the vast minority on this board. You're in the 10% but you wear it like a badge of honor as if you think you're incredibly smarter than everyone.
The reality is you're just plain wrong.
This post was edited on 11/17/17 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:04 pm to bmy
quote:
It's pretty simple and summed up by a single rule: 1) All packets must be treated equally That's back-breaking regulation if you ask me
23 pages in this bitch and you haven't the slightest fricking idea what has been discussed.
That you don't see the problem with "all packets must be treated equally" in practice is a you problem.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:05 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I know that when I'm thinking about how to expand competition in a market, the first thing I think to do is to make the existing players foot the bill for aspects of their business they have no control over while banning them from using the normal market mechanisms to deal with that.
Let's see if I can square this for you. Net neutrality does put more of a burden on ISPs by forcing them to equally deliver content. In that regard, net neutrality is anti-competitive. However, that anti-competitive side effect of net neutrality is necessary to preserve the provision of content in a market that is controlled by a few major ISPs. This is why content providers support net neutrality and major ISPs do not.
However, that anti-competitive consequence is far outweighed by a different anti-competitive force - government favoritism of existing ISPs (this gets complicated to explain). In a perfect world, we could attack this and eliminate the need for net neutrality. However, until that happens, net neutrality works as a stop-gap measure to protect the delivery of content in an uncompetitive market protected by government.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 2:06 pm to ShortyRob
My god. It's amazing. So I take it that you think that Comcast and other ISPs should be providers, creators, and controllers?
Which socialism? Be specific. I'm well-versed in its history. That isn't a Marxist-Leninist appeal, nor would it constitute a anarcho-communist one. Please describe what socialism means here.
I'll always be glad to be on the opposite side of Comcast, no matter what.
Sure. My command of history and ME politics is pretty on point. I still think you are being myopic.
I've never watched John Oliver. My views are based on conversations with my brother-in-law's brother, a VP at a Seattle firm that does contract work with the big 3. Somehow none of your views overlaps with his. I'll go ahead and trust him on this.
quote:
Socialists speak in terms of what "should" exist in markets.
Which socialism? Be specific. I'm well-versed in its history. That isn't a Marxist-Leninist appeal, nor would it constitute a anarcho-communist one. Please describe what socialism means here.
quote:
You go ahead and retreat to "government regulation appeal". I'm good with that.
I'll always be glad to be on the opposite side of Comcast, no matter what.
quote:
We're anonymous Joes on the internet, but, my command of business and economics is pretty fricking on point.
Sure. My command of history and ME politics is pretty on point. I still think you are being myopic.
quote:
I'm OK with people who get their economic evaluations from John Oliver disagreeing with me on that.
I've never watched John Oliver. My views are based on conversations with my brother-in-law's brother, a VP at a Seattle firm that does contract work with the big 3. Somehow none of your views overlaps with his. I'll go ahead and trust him on this.
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