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Message
re: Facts about Ivermectin from an ICU Nurse
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:28 pm to Hopeful Doc
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:28 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Covid is a mild disease for the majority of patients. This makes it hard to determine if treatments are helping.
quote:
That’s the real problem here. The argument of early treatment to prevent worsening in an illness that is often mild makes it quite difficult to tease out what is actually working
If the infection is mild, then there is no problem. If these drugs are safe (and a LONG history has suggested that they are), then they should be prescribed immediately. Why?
Logically...
they are either effective,
they are a placebo with a positive impact,
or they are not needed.
The reality is that if the patient doesn’t see improvement, or things deteriorate, then they will go to the hospital...which is where they would go without the ambulatory approach. The instructions are the same with, or without ambulatory care...no?
I simply don’t see a down side to prescribing cheap, safe, readily available medications...
especially if some people see results with them, no matter how those results came about.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 10:31 pm
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Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:28 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You can’t tell me you honestly believe the nursing home community is at herd immunity and that’s why they aren’t getting hit hard by delta
He damn sure did.
I gonna get some popcorn.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:29 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Ummm....cause they already died.
I agree to an extent. But the virus is indiscriminate. There were still tons of very vulnerable people out there when the vaccines came out who had not been infected.
Yet those people aren’t dying like they were before. The demographics have shifted to the younger, healthier, and unvaccinated.
We aren’t going to agree and that’s ok. I respect your opinion and am genuinely curious about your experience.
I would however recognize that given the lethality of this virus it’s within the statistical probabilities that you could treat a thousand covid patients and only have a handful die without being proof of anything.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:30 pm to bamadontcare
quote:
He damn sure did.
He told me about the nursing home he went to.
I’m talking about the entire country. Every nursing home and every elderly frail patient who barely goes out of their house got the virus before all the young people testing positive now at record numbers? Sorry, you can’t just make a crazy claim like that without proof.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:38 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:red
He told me about the nursing home he went to. I’m talking about the entire country. Every nursing home and every elderly frail patient who barely goes out of their house got the virus before all the young people testing positive now at record numbers? Sorry, you can’t just make a crazy claim like that without proof.
It’s crazy how common sense keeps proving true.
I know it makes you itchy.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:38 pm to WaWaWeeWa
If you think a virtual “island/communal” demographic that gets hammered by a potentially deadly disease & remains the most isolated/protected location doesn’t lend itself to lower future cases & fatalities I can’t help you.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:39 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
For the most part, doctors are the teachers pet, hall monitor types. They want to please and be favored by those in charge. They are scared of being labeled kooks or quacks by those in academia.
The other thing about Doctors is they don't want to be questioned.
They don't want the patient to Bring up a therapy. They don't want a patient to bring up a study. They neglect nutrition.
They abhor "vitamin talk". I'll bet you not one in ten Drs ever mention vitamin D to a patient.
There is a stigma to vitamins in there eyes, because the CDC and big Pharma don't tout them
Remember, we "just pee all these vitamins out"
In short, alot if them are arrogant and closed minded as hell.
Not to mention, the malpractice phobia.
And don't tell me most doctors would have the balls to even try HCQ or Ivermectin. And if they do, they never talk about. And if effective, I'm sure they keep it under wraps.
But if big Pharma comes up with something new, they will shove it down everyone's throat... Even if it isn't even approved.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 10:45 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:45 pm to HalfCocked
HalfCocked, how much do you apply to the gums?
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:46 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Covid is a mild disease for the majority of patients. This makes it hard to determine if treatments are helping.
True. That's why I have been hesitant to tout it. But after a year and a half with no deaths in a less than ideal patient population of about 9000, we're doing something right. And the only deaths, including my dad, come from his patients, when we were both out with COVID. Could just be luck. A statistical anomaly. That's why I reach out to other physicians I trust for their input.
I'm not saying I'm right. I don't know. But I do know that only one out of about 300 patients in our practice that take HCQ daily has tested positive for COVID and despite her multitude of co-morbid conditions, did fine. Has some lingering cough and increased asthma symptoms.
Why haven't we been tracking pt's on HCQ daily? That'd be easy enough, Any of you guys seen a chronic HCQ pt die or be hospitalized with COVID?
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:48 pm to bamadontcare
I had someone tell me covid was down in nursing homes because they’re all vaccinated.
I told her she was wrong — they either had it and recovered or they’re dead from it. Yes majority where work are vaccinated but 95%+ had covid.
I told her she was wrong — they either had it and recovered or they’re dead from it. Yes majority where work are vaccinated but 95%+ had covid.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:54 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
True. That's why I have been hesitant to tout it. But after a year and a half with no deaths in a less than ideal patient population of about 9000, we're doing something right. And the only deaths, including my dad, come from his patients, when we were both out with COVID. Could just be luck. A statistical anomaly. That's why I reach out to other physicians I trust for their input.
I hear you. I’m just saying to think about the probabilities.
If the case fatality rate is 0.6% and you treated 1,000 covid patients, on average 6 would die.
You mentioned 4 nursing homes deaths, your father, and I think a few other patients.
That’s within the range of what would be expected.
quote:
I'm not saying I'm right. I don't know
I don’t know either. I think you should keep doing what you are doing because they are treatments with minimal side effects.
quote:
Why haven't we been tracking pt's on HCQ daily?
I believe there was a study on this awhile back. I’ll try to find it.
I appreciate the conversation, and again I’m sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like he was a great doc and an even better father
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:57 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
n short, alot if them are arrogant and closed minded as hell.
Not to mention, the malpractice phobia.
And don't tell me most doctors would have the balls to even try HCQ or Ivermectin. And if they do, they never talk about. And if effective, I'm sure they keep it under wraps.
But if big Pharma comes up with something new, they will shove it down everyone's throat... Even if it isn't even approved.
True. I have a general rule with new medicines. Won't use it for at least a year unless it's the only option. Seen too many bad ones in 18+ years of practice.
I have a handful I respect and trust. All in all, I'm becoming more embarrassed of my profession than proud of it. I never even introduce myself as Dr. unless it's in a clinical setting.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:58 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:58 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Why haven't we been tracking pt's on HCQ daily?
Here is the study from the lancet. I need to read it again before I comment.
Long-term hydroxychloroquine use in patients with rheumatic conditions and development of SARS-CoV-2 infection: a retrospective cohort study
Posted on 8/14/21 at 10:59 pm to SmackoverHawg
This is really some great dialog.
Is it true that cdc has less negative side effects listed using ivermectin for west Nile vs covid, if so what would the motivation to do so be?
3-4 thrombolitic events a week is what %, 5%?
Avi bitterman MD will publicly debate anyone, and has one with Steve kirsh who is Eric Weinstein's partner. LINK
Is it true that cdc has less negative side effects listed using ivermectin for west Nile vs covid, if so what would the motivation to do so be?
3-4 thrombolitic events a week is what %, 5%?
Avi bitterman MD will publicly debate anyone, and has one with Steve kirsh who is Eric Weinstein's partner. LINK
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 11:11 pm to WaWaWeeWa
The study of patients on chronic HCQ showed no difference in rates of infection, hospitalization, or death.
Kind of interesting considering we know HCQ builds up in the plasma and tissues over time. These are patients who should have massive amounts of HCQ in their system. Way more than you could get in a few days.
I’d like to see a study like this for Ivermectin in patients who take it regularly for prophylaxis.
Kind of interesting considering we know HCQ builds up in the plasma and tissues over time. These are patients who should have massive amounts of HCQ in their system. Way more than you could get in a few days.
I’d like to see a study like this for Ivermectin in patients who take it regularly for prophylaxis.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 11:14 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
I have a general rule with new medicines. Won't use it for at least a year unless it's the only option
That’s a good rule. I’m generally super hesitant to write anything new. My program director from residency is pretty much exactly who I want to be like eventually. Early in residency I would get pretty excited about new therapeutics and pipeline drugs. He once told me something to the effect of, “you never want to be the first or the last one writing a new medicine.”
In general, I like stuff that’s old and cheap. The two things I break that rule on are diabetes (and I do actually like the new oral GLP-1 agonist. It’s one of the few I jumped on a little early, but the class isn’t new, and I have a pretty big population of “don’t you dare offer me a needle” diabetics) and asthma, because there are no cheap (though they’re starting to get old) inhaled corticosteroids. And I think it’s close to criminal what inhaled asthma meds cost.
quote:
All in all, I'm becoming more embarrassed of my profession than proud of it
I missed the days where it was venerable altogether. I chose to practice in a place that, from conversations we’ve had in the last, is a lot like yours and has some great guys around. And if everyone had the mindset our group has, medicine would be great. And even locally, patients tend to hold us in fairly high regard. But way too many of my school and residency classmates are clock-punchers with no sense of responsibility who want to be fed guidelines instead of even consider critical thinking, and it is, indeed, embarrassing.
quote:
I never even introduce myself as Dr. unless it's in a clinical setting.
Most of my patients, clinic, and hospital nurses call me by first name. I very rarely call myself “Dr (me)” unless the situation needs it for clarity.
ETA- have very few on HCQ so the sample size is shite. But early ambulatory intervention with it didn’t seem to impact anything, so we all sort of got away from it. Same with ivermectin. And combos of both with doxy or Zithromax. Lately I think I like oral steroids + mAb best.
This post was edited on 8/14/21 at 11:17 pm
Posted on 8/14/21 at 11:18 pm to Rust Cohle
quote:
3-4 thrombolitic events a week is what %, 5%?
My guess would be higher. I have no clue how many of our patients are vaccinated. We note it in the chart when they come in, but often times we do not get documentation of vaccination. We are supposed to, but I've never gotten one from Walmart, WG's is actually good at that one thing, and one large independent here that seldom sends records. And it seems much higher than with COVID. And it's all of them, not just the J&J. They need to at least acknowledge it so doctors and pt's are aware of the risks and catch it early or prevent it. COVID increases clotting risks as well so I consider it a wash.
Posted on 8/14/21 at 11:20 pm to oleyeller
quote:
The stuff at tractor supply is SAME EXACT THING. you just need to know how to cut it for human size/weight.
I have some but have no idea of dosage
Posted on 8/14/21 at 11:24 pm to LSUAngelHere1
quote:
We take the paste 1x/weekly for prevention. My sister is an RN and takes it 2x/weekly bc she’s high risk
How much?
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