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Even NBC knows the impeachment is a sham and no court would charge Trump
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:12 am
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:12 am
NBC
quote:
The Senate will now decide whether President Donald Trump should be convicted on the House's charge of incitement of insurrection, and there has also been discussion of potential criminal charges arising from the same conduct after he leaves office. These would include federal crimes, such as advocating the overthrow of government, rebellion and insurrection. But it would be difficult to convict Trump in a conventional criminal trial for his speech, even if the Senate convicts him. And if the Senate follows First Amendment precedent, he could escape conviction there, too. There's no question that freedom of speech is not absolute. The First Amendment does not sanction incitement to riot. When there is an immediate threat to public safety, peace or order, the power of the government to punish speech is obvious.
quote:
On the other hand, the free speech clause of the First Amendment protects a wide variety of speech even if listeners may consider it deeply offensive. Speech is not "incitement" unless (1) there is proof that the speaker intended the speech to produce imminent lawlessness and (2) the speech is likely to produce that lawlessness. Speech with only violent imagery would be protected by the First Amendment. Even the mere tendency of speech to encourage unlawful acts is not enough to punish it, according to the Supreme Court. Punishable incitement must "specifically advocate" for listeners to take unlawful action, give the crowd detailed instructions on how to break the law or enlist the crowd to carry out a criminal act, the court has said. Under the Supreme Court's Brandenburg test, speech cannot constitute incitement unless the speaker intends lawlessness to result.
quote:
Some, including senators in Trump's trial, will point out that the rioters stormed the Capitol after hearing Trump's speech. To them, the evidence that the speech incited violence is apparent: There was violence after it. But defining the speech by the audience's reaction may be an unconstitutional "heckler's veto," as a legal doctrine is known. The heckler's veto doctrine provides that the hostile reaction of a crowd does not transform protected speech into incitement. A speaker is not automatically liable for the acts of anyone who was at an intended peaceful demonstration. Rather, the speaker must have the intent to engage in the criminal conduct
quote:
Some will argue that Trump's intent was evident in his use of words like "strength" and "fight." That may be. Courts have protected arguably more violent speech in other cases. Statements like "We'll take the street again" and "If we catch any of you going into these racist stores, we're going to break your damn neck" appear closer to advocating violence than the language in Trump's speech. There's also the issue of "imminence" required for incitement. No violence was reported at Trump's speech, which was at the Ellipse. The Capitol is more than a mile away. The invasion of the Capitol clearly happened after the rally, but not seconds after the rally and not in the same place as the rally.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:17 am to Revelator
I don't think they could get a conviction in regular court if the charge were common law or statutory incitement. In fact, no prosecutor would bring the charge.
But this is politics, and "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not well defined.
But this is politics, and "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not well defined.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:18 am to Revelator
He/she wasted time writing all that bullshite when they could have just said “It is very clear that Trump wasn’t trying to incite violence.”
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:19 am to SelaTiger
It was decent information. The best antidote for propaganda is facts.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:39 am to SelaTiger
quote:
He/she wasted time writing all that bull shite when they could have just said “It is very clear that Trump wasn’t trying to incite violence.”
I think it’s a good explanation of why the charge levied against Trump has no legal standing.
I understand that impeachment is a purely political maneuver, and that’s the point.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:45 am to Revelator
quote:I've been missing. Has Judge Holden weighed in on this one?
I think it’s a good explanation of why the charge levied against Trump has no legal standing.
I understand that impeachment is a purely political maneuver, and that’s the point.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:48 am to Revelator
Blows my mind that people need free speech explained to them. It shows they don’t value it. The more people need it explained to them, the more people that won’t fight for its further protection.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:48 am to the808bass
quote:
The best antidote for propaganda is facts.
It hasn't helped with the stolen election. The thieves just keep yelling, unsubstantiated or unverified, or disproven, etc.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:51 am to Revelator
quote:
. The invasion of the Capitol clearly happened after the rally, but not seconds after the rally
Wrong
Posted on 1/15/21 at 7:53 am to GhostOfFreedom
If you can’t win with facts, pound the law.
If you can’t win with law, pound the facts.
If you can’t win with either, pound the table.
Dems have been pounding the table when asked to explain how all those votes that showed up were legal.
If you can’t win with law, pound the facts.
If you can’t win with either, pound the table.
Dems have been pounding the table when asked to explain how all those votes that showed up were legal.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:03 am to Revelator
quote:
Even NBC knows the impeachment is a sham and no court would charge Trump
Everybody knows the Election was a sham, and the 'inauguration' as well. Don't mean they won't go along.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:26 am to Revelator
NBC is already preparing the sheep for a let down.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:27 am to La Place Mike
quote:
NBC is already preparing the sheep for a let down
Well, since it’s unconstitutional to impeach a President who is out of office, they should already know a let down is coming.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:34 am to Revelator
quote:
The First Amendment does not sanction incitement to riot. When there is an immediate threat to public safety, peace or order, the power of the government to punish speech is obvious.
Completely opposite take during all the BLM bullshite. Total hypocrites.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:35 am to the808bass
quote:
The best antidote for propaganda is facts.
I agree, too bad the lemmings will not get past the first line or two and grasp the concepts presented...
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:40 am to Revelator
quote:
Well, since it’s unconstitutional to impeach a President who is out of office, they should already know a let down is coming.
but he will still be in office next week
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:41 am to ksayetiger
quote:
but he will still be in office next week
But the Senate won’t return till the 19th
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:42 am to Revelator
quote:
But the Senate won’t return till the 19th
Normally, I would say they could not get it done in a day but nothing will surprise me at this point...
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:54 am to The Maj
quote:
Normally, I would say they could not get it done in a day but nothing will surprise me at this point...
New evidence is coming out daily that the Capitol attack was pre-planned and started even before Trump finished his rally. This will give less cover to any Republican thinking about going along with impeachment, even if they forced a trial and vote in one day.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 8:57 am to Revelator
quote:
This will give less cover to any Republican thinking about going along with impeachment, even if they forced a trial and vote in one day.
Less cover from what? The MSM?
In a sane and sensible world, I agree with you but we really have crossed over to some alternate dimension when it comes to the coverage of events...
Honestly, I think many within the GOP want the GOP destroyed or weakened even more...
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