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re: Colonial Pipeline Ransom In The $100’s of billions.

Posted on 5/8/21 at 11:15 pm to
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/8/21 at 11:15 pm to
quote:

The US blew up a Russian pipeline in the 1980’s by putting in a software bug. Don’t doubt Russia would do this since Biden went after Putin.

and this should be expected, it's a national security issue. There should be separate redundant control capabilities designed into the system.
Posted by sabanisarustedspoke
Member since Jan 2007
4947 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:07 am to
quote:


Colonial Pipeline Ransom In The $100’s of billions.
I hope people realize these pipelines can be operated manually, right?




That's great to hear. But one thing this and every other pipeline in the history of our country has not operated as is FREE. And while I'm sure we can get plenty of our latest graduates from ITT or BRCC or wherever some of these "Industry Insiders" on this site came from, one thing that isn't gonna happen is Colonial, Plantation, or any of them gonna do shite for FREE and that part of this operation, the logistics or accounting part went away from manual long long long ago...
This post was edited on 5/9/21 at 12:10 am
Posted by hottub
Member since Dec 2012
3325 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:32 am to
quote:

That's great to hear. But one thing this and every other pipeline in the history of our country has not operated as is FREE. And while I'm sure we can get plenty of our latest graduates from ITT or BRCC or wherever some of these "Industry Insiders" on this site came from, one thing that isn't gonna happen is Colonial, Plantation, or any of them gonna do shite for FREE and that part of this operation, the logistics or accounting part went away from manual long long long ago...





Wtf are you even talking about?
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:37 am to
quote:

That's great to hear. But one thing this and every other pipeline in the history of our country has not operated as is FREE. And while I'm sure we can get plenty of our latest graduates from ITT or BRCC or wherever some of these "Industry Insiders" on this site came from, one thing that isn't gonna happen is Colonial, Plantation, or any of them gonna do shite for FREE and that part of this operation, the logistics or accounting part went away from manual long long long ago...

How about this? Colonial is losing millions, every minute this pipeline aint flowing. Are you a communist? Because you seem to think about things in a communist logic.
Posted by ssgrice
Arizona
Member since Nov 2008
3057 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:54 am to
quote:

I’m sure the fbi is on it just after they serve another fisa/fara warrant on rudi

I'm sure the IC will say that this group was on their radar.
Posted by offshoreangler
713, Texas
Member since Jun 2008
22313 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:54 am to
quote:

Colonial sends different products down the line like gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, etc. The valves open and close based on an inline gravity measurement so the gasoline goes into the gasoline tanks, diesel in the diesel tanks, etc. There is some mixing that takes place and that product gets stored in the transmix tanks. The transmix gets blended in with the diesel as long as the diesel still meets spec.




These products ship on two different lines, at least until they get to Greensboro.

Line 1 is gas, Line 2 is oil(ULSD, Jet, Dist. Blend, LCO).

Colonial ships on 5 day cycles...so day one of the cycle on Line 1 might be a couple million barrels of CBOB from different injection points, day two will be couple million RBOB from different injection points...and so on through the different boutique grades being shipped...point being it's not random.

Line 2, same way...one big cycle day of ULSD from different injection points, one big cycle day of Jet from different points...again it's not random.

This is done to minimize the transmix generation...Explorer Pipeline does the same thing, except they only have one line to ship on, and they insert spheres into their line on a grade or product change to minimize transmix.

I say all this to say...Colonial isn't fricking blending transmix into diesel batches, ULSD batches, and "still meeting spec". Next to Jet and Government grade products, ULSD is the most sensitive product shipped on this line. Any introduction of product that isn't fungible in terms of flash point or sulfur rating will ruin ULSD...so unless Colonial has a tank full of ULSD they are just giving away...I call bullshite.

Besides...transmix is a big business for pipeline operators like Colonial...they can take their customers' transmix...keep it in their own (CPL)transmix system...and then sell that to another third party to be used as feedstock or even re-run to get something marketable again.

This post was edited on 5/9/21 at 1:51 am
Posted by ssgrice
Arizona
Member since Nov 2008
3057 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:59 am to
quote:

There happen to be a lot of guys out of work right now, who know a bit about pipelines, and this may be a good lesson about why we need another pipeline.

Unless they are minority or transgender, it won't appease the woke crowd.
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:02 am to
Do you agree that they can operate manually at maybe a decreased efficiency right now though?
Posted by offshoreangler
713, Texas
Member since Jun 2008
22313 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:11 am to
Every pipeline operator has in their operating procedures conditions in which the control center and the local operations will enter a manual operation mode if needed. If Colonial's SCADA/HMI (what a pipeline controller uses to monitor/control pipeline operations), was compromised, then frick me, their firewalls are shite.

Certain thresholds have to be met, but yes, manual operation can be done if accurate line balancing can be achieved, and product cuts can be made.

Colonial charges the folks that ship on their lines tariffs, and those tariffs are usually assessed via meter tickets (cents per barrel shipped). It's possible this was compromised.

There is a lot of federal regulation regarding the operation of pipelines and pipeline control centers (if you want some light bed time reading, look up control room management).
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:18 am to
They should already have a plan in place to do it. If they don't, it's huge failure.
Posted by offshoreangler
713, Texas
Member since Jun 2008
22313 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:34 am to
I'll be honest with you...cyber attack isn't in the local site specific procedure of any pipeline operator in this country...at least that I've come across...been to many CRM API conferences, so I've seen worlds outside of my own organization, and am very acquainted with how large control centers work. But it will be soon I'm sure after PHMSA and Colonial flesh everything out.

You game out certain things...communication failures, power loss, instrumentation failure, leak detection failures, actual pipeline ruptures...but usually these are done as lessons learned then incorporated into procedure or training.

Colonial is doing everything they can to investigate/isolate this issue that has never been encountered by any pipeline operator in the country.

Unscheduled shutdowns of these lines happen all the time...for one reason or another...they just aren't publicized.

Someone in Port Arthur had a flange leak...a shipper in Houston doesn't have their product blended and this is the last tank in the cycle...massive storm knocks out power to part of the system.

It's up to the operator to determine when it is safe to resume normal operations, no matter how many calls they get from commodities traders/blenders or federal agencies.

This post was edited on 5/9/21 at 1:45 am
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:42 am to
Yep, and this would really fall under communication outage. It should be an easy transition, although slower probably, Really shouldn't be a disaster.

What I really suspect, is that this is a way, that the tapioca regime that we have, has found a way to put the loudest Keystone Workers, back working, because it's hurting them politically in key areas.
Posted by 2020_reVISION
Richmond,VA
Member since Dec 2020
3031 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 1:52 am to
quote:

They don't have people trained to open and close valves? Is that how fricking stupid this country has become?


Apparently stupid enough for some to think opening & closing valves is all that's required.
If that's all there was to it, there wouldn't be much to hack.
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27819 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 2:03 am to
quote:

Apparently stupid enough for some to think opening & closing valves is all that's required. If that's all there was to it, there wouldn't be much to hack.

Yeah, I can see that you know all about it, and I would like for you to tell us all how much.

I can tell you what I know about fluid/gas/steam/nuclear controls, I have learned from working across those types of industries, while also dabbling in machining and some boat building and setting up shite for NASA rocket tests, so we could flow a million gallons of water to a ditch in 60 seconds.

Nowdays , I guess you just need an app for that, and pretend that you are an expert by spouting a stream of letters.
This post was edited on 5/9/21 at 3:08 am
Posted by Marye
Member since Oct 2020
434 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 7:13 am to
quote:

Apparently stupid enough for some to think opening & closing valves is all that's required.


"Pipelines operate most efficiently when there is a steady, uninterrupted stream of product moving from refinery to market. If there are gaps between batches of product, pumps have to work too hard to keep the pipeline contents under pressure and moving forward.

Because a variety of refined products move through the same pipelines, some mixing occurs where the trailing end of a batch of one product meets the leading edge of the next batch of product in the line. If the two products are similar, such as different grades of gasoline, this "interface" can be incorporated into the lower-grade product.

When two dissimilar products, such as diesel fuel and gasoline, come into contact, the blended product is called "transmix." The transmix is collected separately, and then trucked back to a refinery for reprocessing.

In some cases, pipeline operators will separate especially sensitive products, such as jet fuel, from other pipeline contents using spherical plastic "pigs" to prevent transmix."

LINK
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39105 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 7:33 am to
quote:

Elect" stupid people

I voted for Trump, but this has zero to do with whom we elected.
Posted by BamaScoop
Panama City Beach, Florida
Member since May 2007
53810 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 7:45 am to
I hope it’s people that Biden shut down on the US pipeline that did this.

Maybe they learned how to code, wasn’t that Biden’s suggestion?
This post was edited on 5/9/21 at 7:46 am
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118678 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 8:21 am to
quote:

say all this to say...Colonial isn't fricking blending transmix into diesel batches, ULSD batches, and "still meeting spec". Next to Jet and Government grade products, ULSD is the most sensitive product shipped on this line. Any introduction of product that isn't fungible in terms of flash point or sulfur rating will ruin ULSD...so unless Colonial has a tank full of ULSD they are just giving away...I call bullshite.



Look I’m just repeating the answer I received from a Colonial executive. I literally asked the question, what do you do with the transmix? The answer was we blend what we can and sell the rest.
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
7356 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 8:22 am to
quote:

i would be shocked if there was not analog control systems


Or at least some sort of custom software that is air gapped from the internet.

The problem with using common software and all systems running on the same networks as regular internet traffic is that it can take one compromised system and it starts infecting other systems and it cascades down.

But as a back up, there should be manual override controls to run the system without the aid of computers. Of course that would take skilled people and manual coordination, which were all replaced by computers and fewer people who may have only been trained in IT and don’t know what a wrench is.
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
146561 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 8:23 am to
the truth to this lies some where in between of the theories. OBiden is stupid enough to gather the money and gold from Fort Knox to pay off the ransom.
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