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re: Can Someone Explain Something To Me?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:18 pm to wackatimesthree
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:18 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Then why did representatives in South Carolina and other southern states vehemently object to New York having the state's right to enact a law preventing slave owners from retrieving their runaway slaves who had made it into states that had outlawed slavery?
Southern states viewed slaves as property. Of course they would object to another "states right" infringing on their personal property rights.
1
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:19 pm to wackatimesthree
Lincoln Was a Tyrant
Those links have alot of BS in them. If I have to read all that, you can watch Razorfist and he will school you on what set the tone for the Civil War
quote:
I'll investigate the EP if you'll investigate the links I posted above and comment on the specifics of those.
Those links have alot of BS in them. If I have to read all that, you can watch Razorfist and he will school you on what set the tone for the Civil War
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:19 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
I thought this board had a transexual cocksucker filter.
You would think, but we're up to over 40 at this point.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:20 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Did they?
people who usurped the constitution of the United States
quote:How do you think the British described the American colonists taking up arms against their government?
took up arms against it for purposes few (if anyone) would condone today, and lost
The winners always write the history books
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:20 pm to wackatimesthree
I think your fundamental argument that anyone is "celebrating" these memorials is flawed.
If we are speaking about protestations of their removal from culture, I would find myself in this camp. My ancestors fought for the Union army (Indiana 44th Inf), one was held in a Confederate prison for a year. I still don't think it necessary to remove a statue of Jackson, Lee, Jefferson, confederate flags, et al to "remedy" past wrongs. If you want to add a plaque to the thing to add nuance to history- knock yourself out. Tearing it down or removing it for display in some private museum is ridiculous. It's part of our history as Americans and should be displayed, and learned from.
I personally believe where you are reading "glorification" of these historical figures is actually people thinking that the revolutionaries knocking them down are off their meds and need to be held accountable for destruction of private property.
I wish to remind you too, that there was a cultural revolution in China within my life time. Symbols of the past. Statues, Traditions, etc.. were systemically destroyed to lead the way to a Communist Regime. It didn't end well.
In an open and free society, you must not astroturf your history
If we are speaking about protestations of their removal from culture, I would find myself in this camp. My ancestors fought for the Union army (Indiana 44th Inf), one was held in a Confederate prison for a year. I still don't think it necessary to remove a statue of Jackson, Lee, Jefferson, confederate flags, et al to "remedy" past wrongs. If you want to add a plaque to the thing to add nuance to history- knock yourself out. Tearing it down or removing it for display in some private museum is ridiculous. It's part of our history as Americans and should be displayed, and learned from.
I personally believe where you are reading "glorification" of these historical figures is actually people thinking that the revolutionaries knocking them down are off their meds and need to be held accountable for destruction of private property.
I wish to remind you too, that there was a cultural revolution in China within my life time. Symbols of the past. Statues, Traditions, etc.. were systemically destroyed to lead the way to a Communist Regime. It didn't end well.
In an open and free society, you must not astroturf your history
This post was edited on 9/8/24 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:20 pm to bostitch
quote:
Southern states viewed slaves as property. Of course they would object to another "states right" infringing on their personal property rights.
But again, if constitutionality matters in the validity of the sovereignty of states ability to pass valid laws, then they had no valid claim to slaves being property.
You can't have it both ways.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:26 pm to wackatimesthree
Well your constitutional argument relies on your interpretation ("in spirit if not in letter"). That's the thing about the constitution, if it's not in letter then it's not actually in the constitution
This post was edited on 9/8/24 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:27 pm to TigerBaitOohHaHa
quote:
I think your fundamental argument that anyone is "celebrating" these memorials is flawed.
I'm saying I don't understand it. So far no one has been able to explain it (or has even tried, really).
quote:
I still don't think it necessary to remove a statue of Jackson, Lee, Jefferson, confederate flags, et al to "remedy" past wrongs.
Which past wrongs? Slavery, or the racism and attempts at racial intimidation that likely motivated the statue to be put up in the first place?
I'm not even necessarily arguing for the removal of the statues/symbols, although I probably would if I were black, and as much because of slavery as because of the tactics that were being carried out by putting them up.
quote:
I personally believe where you are reading "glorification" of these historical figures is actually people thinking that the revolutionaries knocking them down are off their meds and need to be held accountable for destruction of private property.
You must have missed the rest of the thread up until now, then.
And you have it backward. The violent loony extremists are the ones who put most of the statues up in the first place. Klan members and the like.
quote:
It's part of our history as Americans and should be displayed, and learned from.
If that's it's purpose why do you object to re-locating it to a museum? Again, seems like a non-sequitur.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:27 pm to wackatimesthree
1. Slave owners were the minority in the south.
2. Why isn't there a such thing as northern heritage or northern pride?
3. Which of these is a common term, northern hospitality or southern hospitality?
4. Why hasn't the removal of the Confederate flag and all of the Confederate statues ended the violence in cities like New Orleans and Baton Rouge?
5. Is it wrong for me to be proud of my Italian heritage and tout the uniqueness of New Orleans, without feeling shame for things that happened and was subsequently outlawed scores before my family arrived in the country?
2. Why isn't there a such thing as northern heritage or northern pride?
3. Which of these is a common term, northern hospitality or southern hospitality?
4. Why hasn't the removal of the Confederate flag and all of the Confederate statues ended the violence in cities like New Orleans and Baton Rouge?
5. Is it wrong for me to be proud of my Italian heritage and tout the uniqueness of New Orleans, without feeling shame for things that happened and was subsequently outlawed scores before my family arrived in the country?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:28 pm to wackatimesthree
Three-fifths compromise, compromise agreement between delegates from the Northern and the Southern states at the United States Constitutional Convention (1787) that three-fifths of the enslaved population would be counted for determining direct taxation and representation in the House of Representatives.
This agreed to amendment puts the Southern states at a disadvantage from its inception.
You can retroactively argue this amendment should never had been adopted.
But it's existence makes it constitutional.
This agreed to amendment puts the Southern states at a disadvantage from its inception.
You can retroactively argue this amendment should never had been adopted.
But it's existence makes it constitutional.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:29 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Why is it that people in the south glorify Confederate Generals/Leaders/statues/flags as part of "heritage?"
a lot of ppl have ancestors that fought and or lived though the Civil War
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:30 pm to bostitch
quote:
That's the thing about the constitution, if it's not in letter then it's not actually in the constitution
If I believed that I couldn't defend the 2nd Amendment. It requires looking at other Founding Father documents to define what constitutes a "militia."
It's clear of you look at other documents that the militia means the citizenry, but that isn't clear at all from just reading the 2nd.
So you think that slavery is constitutional, then? How about rape? That's not specifically mentioned in the constitution. How about abortion? Again, not mentioned.
States can make laws allowing rape because there's nothing in the constitution about it?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:30 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
I'm saying I don't understand it. So far no one has been able to explain it (or has even tried, really).
Let me put it simply. Nobody is celebrating slavery. Full stop.
that is a leftist porn fantasy
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:32 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
a lot of ppl have ancestors that fought and or lived though the Civil War
I get that, but so did a lot of black people. Whose ancestors were enslaved by the people that are being glorified.
Why do they not have a right to their opinion on it?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:33 pm to TigerBaitOohHaHa
quote:
Let me put it simply. Nobody is celebrating slavery. Full stop.
that is a leftist porn fantasy
Nobody claimed that.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:33 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Why is it that people in the south glorify Confederate Generals/Leaders/statues/flags as part of "heritage?"
Because that’s what my direct ancestors fought for and I respect them over non blood opinions no matter what. That’s the simple answer
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:35 pm to themunch
quote:
But it's existence makes it constitutional.
It's existence means that it was in the constitution. It doesn't make it constitutional in the sense that just because it's in there it legitimately reflects the integrity of the rest of the document.
Again, if we passed an amendment classifying women as 3/5 of a person and specified that they could be raped by a man as a result of that classification, that would pass constitutional muster?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:38 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
1. Enslaving human beings is antithetical to the Constitution of the US.
Really? You do know that the bible doesn't condemn slavery.
And even today the Constitution still conditionally allows for slavery.
You know that right?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:38 pm to wackatimesthree
I think we are done here.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:38 pm to wackatimesthree
Relax, lady. Just pointing out that in your very first bullet you threw out an inconvenient part of the constitution and based your argument on intent that you read into it. You do that and you deserve all the downvotes you get, regardless of subject
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