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re: Can anyone defend being a libertarian anymore?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:57 am to OBReb6
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:57 am to OBReb6
That’s how I’ve always construed it (open borders), and it’s idiotic. I could accept some of their tenets that I don’t agree in exchange for their tenets that are spot on, but this is one of their deal killers for me.
0
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:58 am to prouddawg
quote:
Give me some adult arguments then
With no welfare, yes. Also the Libertarian party is a joke, its impossible to systemize freedom
Because without US govt paying them to come here, they migrate back and forth depending on work availability.
quote:
"It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state," he warned. This remark adds insight to the current debate over immigration in the U.S. Senate.
Milton Friedman
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:59 am to OBReb6
quote:
I don’t say this with contempt, I considered myself loosely libertarian for years, but a while back I just couldn’t keep rationalizing the lie of it all.
Every time a take a political survey I am considered a right leaning libertarian but I think most libertarians are closer to the Dim ideology rather than America First/MAGA, particularly when you consider societal behavior.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:00 pm to LSUnKaty
You have to look to the aftermath of WWII on the manipulation of world markets. It all hinged on the use of the Navy to ensure wholesale global commerce. Involved in that were certain " monetary inducements " that we used to create leverage in worldwide markets to help promote stability in the war's aftermath. You can call it bribes or use of soft power.
The US taxpayer underwrote it. But there were several advantages in doing so since the US economy was so strong in the post war period. Liberal trade policies rewarded the American consumer and helped to buttress the growing middle class. In return our economy was able to evolve to a more service oriented economy. USAID was used as a conduit to " bribe" or shore up smaller aspects of that mission once the Marshall Plan had run its course in Europe and MacArthur dictates had resurrected Japan and filtered through the Pacific like the Philippines, S.Korea and even Taiwan later on in another form. USAID is peanuts compared to the other stuff we underwrote.
The US taxpayer underwrote it. But there were several advantages in doing so since the US economy was so strong in the post war period. Liberal trade policies rewarded the American consumer and helped to buttress the growing middle class. In return our economy was able to evolve to a more service oriented economy. USAID was used as a conduit to " bribe" or shore up smaller aspects of that mission once the Marshall Plan had run its course in Europe and MacArthur dictates had resurrected Japan and filtered through the Pacific like the Philippines, S.Korea and even Taiwan later on in another form. USAID is peanuts compared to the other stuff we underwrote.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Libertarianism isnt a ruling philosophy,its a contributing philosophy that favors freedom over statism.
This is meaningless though. Freedom is only achieved through force. Without being the ruler themselves and being unwilling to do what’s necessary to become the ruler, this ideology is destined to be at best temporary, and at worst crushed.
quote:
Its 100% necessary to keep you people from destroying all freedom to build some statist utopia with govt controlling the economy.
Assumptions about what I want aside and entertaining your worst fears, what are you even saying? You’re gonna keep people like me from destroying things how? And lol at thinking the government doesn’t already control the economy
quote:
The fact that it bothers you folks pretty much prove progressivism is your future.
Libertarianism IS progressivism
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:00 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
particularly when you consider societal behavior.
Why should govt regulate voluntary social interactions?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:02 pm to OBReb6
quote:
This is meaningless though
Look at this progressive...
So youre saying the influences of Ron Paul and Milton Friedman ware worthless...
Spoken like a true commie. Why are you afraid of natural order and voluntary exchanges?
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
quote: particularly when you consider societal behavior.
Why should govt regulate voluntary social interactions?
Who said anything about the government controlling the social interactions of consenting adults who are adherents to the law?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:06 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
You have to look to the aftermath of WWII on the manipulation of world markets. It all hinged on the use of the Navy to ensure wholesale global commerce. Involved in that were certain " monetary inducements " that we used to create leverage in worldwide markets to help promote stability in the war's aftermath. You can call it bribes or use of soft power.
The US taxpayer underwrote it. But there were several advantages in doing so since the US economy was so strong in the post war period. Liberal trade policies rewarded the American consumer and helped to buttress the growing middle class. In return our economy was able to evolve to a more service oriented economy. USAID was used as a conduit to " bribe" or shore up smaller aspects of that mission once the Marshall Plan had run its course in Europe and MacArthur dictates had resurrected Japan and filtered through the Pacific like the Philippines, S.Korea and even Taiwan later on in another form. USAID is peanuts compared to the other stuff we underwrote.
Oh wow someone who knows what he’s talking about
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:07 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Who said anything about the government controlling the social interactions of consenting adults who are adherents to the law?
What?
The question is why do you need to regulate social interactions (voluntary) between two adults?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:10 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
So youre saying the influences of Ron Paul and Milton Friedman ware worthless...
When it ended up with a result of funding drag shows in Cambodian sweatshops, I’d have to conclude yes that it was worthless.
quote:
Spoken like a true commie. Why are you afraid of natural order and voluntary exchanges?
Natural order? Voluntary exchanges? Where has this ever existed? If natural order has never existed can it really be called natural?
Also you never address a whole post. Only one sentence from one at best, because you have nothing.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:11 pm to OBReb6
quote:
When it ended up with a result of funding drag shows in Cambodian sweatshops, I’d have to conclude he’s that it was worthless.
Thats not Libertarianism goober.
They spend faaaar less than MAGA or Democrats, not more.
Youre very confused.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
How can their positive influence be measured if there are no positive outcomes to show for it?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:12 pm to OBReb6
Can anyone defend being 100% a part of any political party? It seems dumb as hell to let others dictate for you what you should and should support.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:14 pm to Nomoreshinesbilly
quote:
Can anyone defend either of the two criminal parties now that they’ve been exposed as one in the same? What are you talking about
You sure won’t hear it from me
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:15 pm to OBReb6
Libertarianism is an optimal viewpoint in a culture in which people share unifying values, work ethics and history.
Its completely impractical in a divided culture such as the US circa 2025.
Its completely impractical in a divided culture such as the US circa 2025.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:15 pm to OBReb6
Libertarians have just become contrarian trolls for the most part. The are ok with the house burning down just as long as everyone recognizes they were the one's screaming fire(while doing nothing to put out fire)
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:20 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Libertarians have just become contrarian trolls for the most part. The are ok with the house burning down just as long as everyone recognizes they were the one's screaming fire(while doing nothing to put out fire)
/thread
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:20 pm to OBReb6
They actually don't want to participate or be constructive, they just get off on being contrarian and complaining.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:54 pm to dafif
quote:
I am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate Not sure where that fits but no a single democrat policy is of any value
I'm with ya. And the big L misses the point of the small l on social issues like abortion. Small 'l' philosophy says that if the fetus is a person you are violating it's liberty by abortion. If it is not a person then you are violating the woman's liberty. So, you can hold either opinion. But big L party ignores this simple logic and just says abortion is a right.
I believe that 'person-hood' can be debated but Roe v. Wade cannot. It's not in the Constitution. If was just made up by the court and abortion should be left to the states. And that is also Trump's opinion.
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