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Message
re: Black Hawk was flying at 400 feet—twice the legal height limit of 200 feet
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:00 am to monsterballads
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:00 am to monsterballads
Can't really tell if the helo is descending or not. It could also be flying further away as it went from left to right. Both would be perceived as the same to the POV from the ground in that video.
Only way to know for sure from a visual standpoint is if the helo would kept going and progressively gotten smaller.
Only way to know for sure from a visual standpoint is if the helo would kept going and progressively gotten smaller.
1
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:01 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
It was reported the crew were wearing night vision goggles......why? Why would the crew wear night vision equipment while flying in a highly illuminated airspace? Makes no sense.
The night vision is in the visor now and doesn't have the "green" tint from 1990 movies. The vision is clear; the only thing that the night vision inhibits is depth perception. The vision, the night sky everything was clear- no reason not to see an airliner approaching for landing by anyone in the cockpit.
I guess the crew could have been focused on the airliner taking off but to not see their path is about to cross in front of a lighted airliner is just bizarre giving the vision clarity.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:01 am to monsterballads
Obviously the BH pilot fricked up. But I question a policy where you have helicopters flying only 200 feet directly below landing airplanes. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:02 am to monsterballads
Per our trustworthy MSM, pilot identified as Wi Tu Hy
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:08 am to monsterballads
quote:
100%... I have a lot of hours in the air in helos and... this doesn't look good at all.
Thanks for your perspective. My time is all fixed wing. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't ascribing too much weight to the fact that the nose of the Blackhawk is pitched down.
Can we get this stickied for future discussion of crash? I think these are the definitive videos.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:11 am to monsterballads
quote:
what was the instructor doing here? he's got 1000 hours in the air. not a novice.
Hegseth said it was an annual evaluation for continuation of government training.
Maybe that means everyone has to run the route from the base down river, up to DC to pick up their VIP, then return to base.
Yesterday someone said in these training runs one pilot acts as the instructor /evaluator while the other is the "student". Then they switch.
No idea of that is accurate but it sounded good.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:12 am to pankReb
quote:
Can't really tell if the helo is descending or not
Thanks for that, but it does seem to match the path of the jet.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:18 am to Hodag
quote:
What would cause them to go up 200 ft, especially knowing there was a 200 ft ceiling.
Spatial disorientation. Visual flight rules in Class B airspace, night vision goggles, flying over urban lighting, inexperienced CWO2 pilot in command.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:18 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
Thanks for posting. Those videos show the helicopter clearly DESCENDING, which is at odds with previous reports of it ASCENDING just before impact.
I don't think it is descending. I think it appears that way because it is flying with a forward tilt to get forward motion from the rotors. It makes it look like it is flying downward.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:19 am to DrrTiger
quote:
But I question a policy where you have helicopters flying only 200 feet directly below landing airplanes. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
really a bad time to be doing training and it looks like the dod was NOT coordinated with the FAA and the towers.
they could've coordinated this exercise for a time where there wouldn't be so much air traffic coming into to reagan. but hindsight is 20/20.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:29 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
Thanks for that, but it does seem to match the path of the jet.
for sure. I try to keep all possibilities open(both extreme and not). I know the pilot sits on the right and the plane was coming from the left....but those landing lights are bright as shite. I guess it's possible that the pilot was looking right to the other plane thinking that was the one they thought ATC was talking about......but I definitely find it hard to believe that none of the 3 in the Helo saw the lights of the oncoming plane.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:33 am to pankReb
quote:
guess it's possible that the pilot was looking right to the other plane thinking that was the one they thought ATC was talking about
I doesn't seem plausible that both pilots were looking to the right at the departing aircraft. The only likely targets for their attention would have been to their left...coming north up the Potomac to land at DCA.
Like you, I just can't imagine a scenario where all three people in Blackhawk were focused right. Tragically, though, I don't think the controller called out a position for the traffic..."See the CRJ AT YOUR 11 O'CLOCK?..."
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 9:37 am
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:36 am to IvoryBillMatt
Unreal that such military training would be thought to be OK, need a complete overhaul of military civilian aircraft interactions
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:38 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
I doesn't seem plausible that both pilots were looking to the right at the departing aircraft. The only likely targets for their attention would have been to their left.
unless they thought the plane to the right earlier in the flight line was the one they thought ATC was talking about.
But yeah even still.....3 people. Bright as shite landing lights.....It's just very odd.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:40 am to monsterballads
quote:
100%... I have a lot of hours in the air in helos and... this doesn't look good at all. not sure how someone can watch these videos and come away with a different theory of what happened here. On it's face it's looks intentional.
I’ve only flown Cessna and Piper. Let me ask you a question… do you think the airline pilot ever got the Hawk in its view? No option for a go-around at all??
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:46 am to Honest Tune
quote:
do you think the airline pilot ever got the Hawk in its view? No option for a go-around at all??
had to have seen the damn 60. idk why it didn't just go around it
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:48 am to monsterballads
My private instructor was a hurricane hunter and accident investigator in his service career. He is in disbelief how a wreck like this occurs with so many people and procedures in place to prevent this exact type of tragedy.
Simple answer: intentionally done.
Simple answer: intentionally done.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:51 am to Honest Tune
Yeah I’m baffled by this tbh. Should have never happened. Was this either a really stupid person or someone with bad intentions?
Neither look great
Neither look great
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:52 am to Honest Tune
quote:
Simple answer: intentionally done.
Won't the black box have some sort of conversations pre-impact?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:52 am to Bass Tiger
I go up at night to gather test and evaluation data for sensitive ITAR rated items on both rotor aircraft and fixed wing aircraft. In the air, the ground and lights from buildings, streetlights, etc. may make you think they don't need night vision, but they do. They also need LIDAR systems to show a point cloud showing transmission lines and towers. Another is that all ground looks dark. You can't really tell from the air (in general) if that dark patch is a body of water or a field, and if it's a field is it loaded with cattle or any obstructions preventing landing in an emergency. The FAA is looking into different new systems, such as a distributed aperture system of small cameras with highly sensitive color sensors that can see at night in color. A cluster of four to six cameras can feed to a computer that stitches them all together so that on the pilot's helmet, using a HUD display (Heads Up Display), when the pilot gets in the aircraft, he would perform a calibration sequence for orientation, then after that would have full visibility across the arc of the pilot's head turn and vision.
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