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Started By
Message
re: Atlantic op-ed claims Catholic rosary has become ‘an extremist symbol’
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:28 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The doctrines that have developed about sola fide, sola scriptura, once saved always saved, double-predestination, age of accountability, etc. were unheard of by the early Christians and they are not supported by scripture. So, they have neither the support of scripture nor apostolic tradition.
FIFY
2
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:29 am to L.A.
Another example that there are way too many "men" these days mouthing off who are convinced they won't catch a slap.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 7:57 am to Stitches
2 Timothy 2:15-16
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:17 am to Stitches
quote:These doctrines are derived from scripture, itself, and therefore were taught by the apostles.quote:
The doctrines that have developed about sola fide, sola scriptura, once saved always saved, double-predestination, age of accountability, etc. were unheard of by the early Christians and they are not supported by scripture. So, they have neither the support of scripture nor apostolic tradition.
FIFY
My point wasn’t to highlight the early church as an infallible rule for what the Bible teaches, but to show that the Catholic standard of “apostolic tradition” isn’t even met when you consider that the marian dogmas were not taught for centuries and even up to a thousand years after Christ, which removes “tradition” from the table. Since the Bible doesn’t teach those things, all I can conclude is that they were doctrines developed by men over time rather than being from God.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:32 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Since the Bible doesn’t teach those things, all I can conclude is that they were doctrines developed by men over time rather than being from God.
Like the tradition of Peter being the first pope. The word pope itself is never mentioned in scripture, nor is the ideas that any of the disciples had to answer to a Pope.
The Scriptures in numerous occasions in the Old and New Testament refer to Christ as the rock. He is the chief cornerstone on which the church is built. He is the rock of offense that causes many to stumble. Yet, when Peter is called the little pebble by Jesus, one time in scripture, right before Jesus calls him the devil I might add, Catholics disregard all other scriptures calling Christ the rock and assume Peter is the rock.
It’s another attempt by Catholics to support a manmade tradition that has no scriptural support.
Ephesians 2:19-21
19 ¶ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
This talks about God’s church being built on apostles ( plural) and prophets, not on a single man, Peter. It goes on to say the foundation of the church is Christ, not Peter.
Ephesians 4:11-12
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ
Why isn’t the office of the Pope listed in the hierarchy of church leadership? Paul doesn’t even hint at a chief pastor or leader.
quote:
1 Peter 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:
Peter himself describes himself as a fellow elder and makes no declaration of some special role or office.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 8:42 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:53 am to L.A.
quote:
the AR-15 rifle has become a sacred object for Christian nationalists
I'm getting my rifles blessed by my priest.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:54 am to dovehunter
quote:
Just pray. God wants you happy. Respect his mother.
This is spot on!
Why do all these non-Catholics care so much about what we do? As a Catholic I don't judge other faiths because they don't believe in the ideas that we hold dear. I don't think that just because you don't believe in the Holy Eucharist you are damned or wrong. That is our faith and not yours, focus on your relationship with your faith and God and don't worry so much about others.
Jesus told us, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
If every faith would listen to his words, we wouldn't have to have these discussions.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 8:59 am to BamaMamaof2
quote:
Why do all these non-Catholics care so much about what we do? As a Catholic I don't judge other faiths because they don't believe in the ideas that we hold dear.
Because your church, the RCC claims to hold all truth and power
quote:
I don't think that just because you don't believe in the Holy Eucharist you are damned or wrong.
It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s what your church doctrine declares.
The historical teaching of the Roman Catholic Church was "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" (Outside the church, there is no salvation).
Well, that is until Vatican 2 when the church completely changed its teaching on this.
That didn’t do a lot of good for all the people who died before Vatican 2 however and thought they were doomed to hell outside the church.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 9:15 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:15 am to Revelator
(no message)
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:18 am to L.A.
The Rosary is Our Blessed Mother's weapon against evil. The Rosary defeated Communism in Russia. She is a Mother; she is our Mother.
In 1918 Mother Mary appeared to three shepherd children in Fatima, Portugal. She came to tell humanity that if they prayed the Rosary, the terrible war (WWI) raging in Europe would end, and peace would prevail. Witnessing the apparition were 70,000+ pilgrims, including some newspaper reporters and photographers.
Our Lady Mother Mary predicted the rise of Russia and Communism. Everyone scoffed at that prophecy because Russia wasn't a world power at that time in history. In addition She warned that if mankind didn't mend his sinful ways another war would descent on mankind. A war more terrible and destructive than the present war. She even prophesied that six months before the start of the war, a warning would be sent to humanity. True to Her prophecy, six months before WWII broke out, the sky over Europe turned blood red. It was reported in the papers and news outlets. Scientist attributed the phenomenon to frick weather conditions. Six months after that event, Germany invaded Poland and the world was plunged into WWII.
We should listen to Our Blessed Mother. She always points to Her son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan and his followers are in full attack mode. Determined to dethrone God from His rightful place as King of the World. Jesus is the new Adam. Mary is the New Eve. Eve was tricked by the serpent. Mary by Her "yes" to God, gave us a powerful weapon against the serpent (Satan). She gave us Jesus the Christ and the Rosary. Jesus crushed the head of the serpent. We should listen to Mary. She's doing what any good mother would do. She is urging her children to behave.
Pray for Peace. Pray the Rosary.
In 1918 Mother Mary appeared to three shepherd children in Fatima, Portugal. She came to tell humanity that if they prayed the Rosary, the terrible war (WWI) raging in Europe would end, and peace would prevail. Witnessing the apparition were 70,000+ pilgrims, including some newspaper reporters and photographers.
Our Lady Mother Mary predicted the rise of Russia and Communism. Everyone scoffed at that prophecy because Russia wasn't a world power at that time in history. In addition She warned that if mankind didn't mend his sinful ways another war would descent on mankind. A war more terrible and destructive than the present war. She even prophesied that six months before the start of the war, a warning would be sent to humanity. True to Her prophecy, six months before WWII broke out, the sky over Europe turned blood red. It was reported in the papers and news outlets. Scientist attributed the phenomenon to frick weather conditions. Six months after that event, Germany invaded Poland and the world was plunged into WWII.
We should listen to Our Blessed Mother. She always points to Her son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan and his followers are in full attack mode. Determined to dethrone God from His rightful place as King of the World. Jesus is the new Adam. Mary is the New Eve. Eve was tricked by the serpent. Mary by Her "yes" to God, gave us a powerful weapon against the serpent (Satan). She gave us Jesus the Christ and the Rosary. Jesus crushed the head of the serpent. We should listen to Mary. She's doing what any good mother would do. She is urging her children to behave.
Pray for Peace. Pray the Rosary.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 10:00 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:22 am to Revelator
quote:
It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s what your church doctrine declares.
The Catholic Church does not teach that if you aren't a Catholic, you won't be allowed into heaven. Teaching of the church has changed thru history as most teachings and beliefs of any organization.
You claiming that a past belief of the Catholic Church should judge the church of today is no different than those you claim that because of slavery in the South, all Southerners are still guilty.
Of course we think we are right, just as you think your faith is right. It's just stupid to think a person would have faith in a church if they didn't think that the teaching taught in that faith weren't right.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:23 am to L.A.
Holy shite.
You know how many cholo gangbangers have a rosary tattoo?
You know how many cholo gangbangers have a rosary tattoo?
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:24 am to Revelator
This article has given me a great idea for a Christmas gift for my Vietnam veteran uncle.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:46 am to FooManChoo
quote:
sola fide, sola scriptura, once saved always saved, double-predestination, age of accountability, etc
quote:
These doctrines are derived from scripture, itself, and therefore were taught by the apostles.
So James taught we are saved by faith alone in James 2:24?
Paul taught that scripture alone is a wholly sufficient teaching authority?
2 Tim. 3:16–17 doesn't teach sole sufficiency of scripture, but rather its usefulness in preparing the man of God for every good work. Sure, we can exegetically ignore the "useful" part and focus only on the "complete" part, but thats ignoring the verse as a whole to twist it to your belief. Paul references oral tradition 3 times in the same letter. 2 Tim. 1:13–14; 2:2; 3:14.
Also Eph. 4:11–15 doesn't mention scripture at all when talking about teaching authorities for Christian perfection.
The Bible definitely doesn't teach once saved always saved, but rather a past, present, and future tense of salvation. Why would we need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling if A) We are double-predestined, and so nothing we do can affect if, and B) If once I'm saved, nothing can change that?
I won't go into the age of accountability, as I believe you are of the Westminster confession, and therefore agree with Catholics on that point.
I said all of that to say this, Marian dogmas might not be explicitly scriptural, but they neither explicitly or implicitly contradict scripure either. Beliefs such as those in my first quote were not taught and widely accepted for over a millennium after Christ, they contradict scripture, and yet you still cling to them as part of your faith.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 9:50 am
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:47 am to BamaMamaof2
quote:
The Catholic Church does not teach that if you aren't a Catholic, you won't be allowed into heaven.
No, not since Vatican 2 and that’s the point. For a few thousand years they claimed those outside the church were doomed for Hell. How is that solace for the millions who weren’t Catholic and died during that period?
Seems like a big deal right?
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:49 am to Stitches
quote:
Marian dogmas might not be explicitly scriptural, but they neither explicitly or implicitly contradict scripure either.
They contradict lots a scripture
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:53 am to Revelator
quote:
They contradict lots a scripture
Idk if you enjoy listening to this type of stuff, but if so, give this a listen.
Marian Dogma Debate
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:53 am to BamaMamaof2
quote:According to the RCC, these dogmas are necessary to be believed in order to remain inside the church, and therefore, inside salvation.
Why do all these non-Catholics care so much about what we do?
quote:Would you apply that statement to Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses? What about Muslims and Atheists? You very well should "judge" those by calling adherents to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, for without Him, no one will be saved from their sins.
As a Catholic I don't judge other faiths because they don't believe in the ideas that we hold dear. I don't think that just because you don't believe in the Holy Eucharist you are damned or wrong. That is our faith and not yours, focus on your relationship with your faith and God and don't worry so much about others.
I believe the church of Rome teaches another gospel that isn't even "good news", because one cannot ever have assurance that their works have merited enough. When you change the gospel from God's gracious gift of Christ's work on the cross for salvation for undeserving sinners, then you are no longer a "church" of Jesus Christ.
quote:Ironically, it is precisely because we are following these words that we do have these discussions.
Jesus told us, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
If every faith would listen to his words, we wouldn't have to have these discussions.
You are focusing on the "do not judge" part and seem to be ignoring the "with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" part. The "measure" we are using is scripture, and we, too, will be judged by God's Word. It's precisely the measure Christians should use to "judge" and reprove false teachings.
Posted on 8/22/22 at 9:55 am to Stitches
quote:I do enjoy listening to those sorts of things. Here's another good one on the subject:
Idk if you enjoy listening to this type of stuff, but if so, give this a listen.
Marian Dogma Debate
Another Marian Dogma Debate
Posted on 8/22/22 at 10:01 am to FooManChoo
Good ole James White. I'll give it a listen throughout the day
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