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re: Atlantic op-ed claims Catholic rosary has become ‘an extremist symbol’

Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:21 pm to
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:21 pm to
quote:

Have you not read your Bible where it says that the prayers of the saints are presented to the Lord God?


Certainly. The word Saint in the Bible refers to any believer in Christ. It’s simply saying the prayers of the believers is offered up to God.



quote:

Have you not read Scripture, when Christ on the Cross tells John - "Behold your mother." Then He tells Mary, "Behold your son." Christ here is speaking to John as the representative of the entire Church. Christ intends His Church to regard Mary as our mother. "Behold your mother."



Nowhere in scripture does it imply or even hint that when Jesus tells John behold your mother, that John here is representative of the church. This is a wholly made up understanding of this passage with no complimentary scriptures to support it. When Jesus tells John, behold your mother, he is simply saying it will be your task to take care of her when I’m gone. Nothing more and nothing less. As usual the Catholics reads things into the scripture that have no scriptural support.


quote:

You have read the scriptures where God almighty tells us,” this is my beloved son, listen to him


Sure and I do. Jesus said,” I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.
The Bible also says, there is one mediator between man and God, the man Jesus Christ. Why don’t you listen?
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:23 pm to
quote:

Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground. Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil." Ephesians 6: 11-13


Show me how and where this passage has anything to do with the rosary?
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

that’s what Catholics ask Mary to do - the devotion to her (which not everyone has) is like looking up to a hero or a favorite person


If Bible says Jesus is or mediator between God and man and Jesus himself says,” I am the way, the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father but my me” why seek another way or why would one need anther mediator?
Does Jesus sleep? Is he too busy at times to hear our prayers?
If you are convicted of murder and had the worlds highest paid lawyer as your advocate, would you say,” nah, I’d prefer the public defender working her first case?!
Seeking Mary as an alternative mediator reminds me of the scene from Willie Wonka. Wille is handing out ever loving gobstoppers to the kids and one of the girls says she wants two. Wonka says,” one is all each of you gets and one is all you need!”
It’s the same with Jesus. One mediator is all you get and one is all you need.
Posted by GreenRockTiger
vortex to the whirlpool of despair
Member since Jun 2020
59077 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

If you don’t believe Catholics teach about Mary being a co-redeemer and co-mediatrix, you’ve never read your catechism
read the catechism??? I teach it - and Mary being co-redeemer or co-mediatrix isn’t even in the catechism - and Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis (to his credit) have urged against calling her that

There may be Catholics and even Catholic priests that support that idea - but it is not what is taught and it is not in the catechism
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
1242 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:40 pm to
quote:

The word Saint in the Bible refers to any believer in Christ


People in Heaven don't believe in Christ?
Posted by GreenRockTiger
vortex to the whirlpool of despair
Member since Jun 2020
59077 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

why seek another way or why would one need anther mediator?
because everyone needs help

Jesus listens to His Mother. You are making it more difficult than it actually is. We are human and in my spiritual life, I’ll take all the help I can get. When I was a kid, only dad worked - but I sure asked mom to ask dad to buy me a new Barbie. Sometimes mom would tell me to ask myself, and sometimes she’d go with me to ask.

Mary brings us to her Son, she doesn’t take his place, and she’s humble enough to know that.
Posted by dovehunter
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2014
1748 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 9:24 pm to
Some people just like to argue. Mary is an important part of the Catholic Faith. She can intercede on our behalf. Why should anybody have a problem honoring the Mother of God?

I do know that praying the rosary can help me see through difficult decisions that come along. Like the Beatles say, “Mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, let it be, let it be.”
This post was edited on 8/21/22 at 9:28 pm
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
12287 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

is an important part of the CHRISTIAN Faith


Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
21057 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

She can intercede on our behalf


Like Jesus wouldn’t want to forgive you but then his mom would make him?
Posted by dovehunter
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2014
1748 posts
Posted on 8/21/22 at 9:35 pm to
Just pray. God wants you happy. Respect his mother.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46064 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 12:20 am to
quote:

Are you say that the largest Christian denomination in the world is fake?
Any “church” that denies the sufficiency of Christ’s death on the cross to pay the debt owed by sin denies the gospel, and therefore, is not a true “church” of Jesus Christ.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46064 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 12:23 am to
quote:

Why should anybody have a problem honoring the Mother of God?
Honor is not the issue. Attributing divine characteristics to her is something I have an issue with.

The doctrines that have developed about Mary were unheard of by the early Christians and they are not supported by scripture. So, they have neither the support of scripture nor apostolic tradition.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 12:23 am
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46064 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 12:29 am to
quote:

Mary brings us to her Son
No, she doesn’t. We have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus, not Mary.

What mariology does is make Jesus out to be an unloving tyrant that needs the gentle persuasion of His mother to make Him show grace towards others. That is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Jesus alone intercedes for us with the Father. We don’t need a mediator for our mediator, and there is no one more loving and compassionate towards His bride than Jesus; not even Mary.
Posted by Rebbedup
Member since Jun 2021
4126 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 12:31 am to
The Christians will have to go underground at one point. As it was over 1,000 years ago with fish symbols. These are left winged democrats who want absolute power. They don’t care about criminals carrying guns. Just the honest people.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 5:57 am to
quote:

because everyone needs help Jesus listens to His Mother. You are making it more difficult than it actually is.


No it’s actually very simple and what you are doing is blasphemous. There was one person offered up for our sins on the cross. There was only one who offered up his blood to the Father as a sacrifice for the sin of man. There is only one who advocates on our behalf to God. There is only one who is a mediator between us and God. There was only one spotless and sinless lamb slain for our transgressions and who made peace with God on our behalf.
That person is Jesus Christ the son of God.
Not Mary, nor Peter, not James, John or Paul, but Jesus.
He and he alone is everything we need and we don’t need to talk to his mother when we can go directly through him.
It’s very plain and simple, and only an organization that wants to venerate Mary above her status would twist scriptures to mean anything else but what it means.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28158 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 6:08 am to
Leave it to the southern baptists to still be trying to scream "blasphemous" and have zero.zero idea of the holy trinity.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 6:23 am to
quote:

read the catechism??? I teach it - and Mary being co-redeemer or co-mediatrix isn’t even in the catechism -


You are right and I misspoke. The idea that Mary is co-redeetrix, co-advicatrix , and Co-medatrix, is found in Catholic writings outside of the Catechism, perhaps an edict from a Pope or some other Catholic writings or ideas from the magisterium.
And here in lies the problem. The Catholics, instead of relying solely on the Bible for Devine guidance use a myriad of sources to formulate their ever changing doctrine.
And even when their doctrine changes, and it has many times over the years, and sometimes, completely contradictory to former teachings, they pretend that this was always intrinsically part of their doctrine and simply understood.
Another thing that the normal Catholic layperson doesn’t understand is that teachings have been added piecemeal throughout its history. Things like the ascension of Mary, the idea that Mary was a perpetual virgin, the idea that Mary was sinless, etc. Each one of these teachings was added at separate times and were never adhered to or taught by the early church.
The Catholics have this in common with many other cults and that’s the idea that the Bible alone is not sufficient and other books or sources must be added to formulate truth. The Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and others also add books that they claim offer extra biblical truths.
This is why you can’t ever have an honest debate with a Catholic about their doctrine. Because they rely on an almost inexhaustible source of materials that no one man could ever understand or explain, giving them reasons to explain away almost anything they choose. Like the teaching that Mary is a co-redeemtrix for example. They’ll say yes she is, but not like Jesus as it pertains to salvation. Well, what other things do we need to be redeemed from besides sin. It’s circular reasoning.
Their doctrine is purposely constructed this way to make it impossible for the layperson to understand, yet intricate enough to allow the Catholic theologian to construct long complicated mysteries to explain any and all doctrines.
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 6:47 am
Posted by Wildcat1996
Lexington, KY
Member since Jul 2020
9547 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 6:26 am to
And the Gideons have been arming hotel rooms for over a century.

Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112879 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 6:34 am to
My inlaws in their late 80s would be surprised to hear they are religious radicals.

But, as they are very into their Catholic faith, I am sure the atheists and agnostics at The Atlantic would consider them radical.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62024 posts
Posted on 8/22/22 at 6:40 am to
quote:

Leave it to the southern baptists to still be trying to scream "blasphemous" and have zero.zero idea of the holy trinity.



Baptist believe in the Trinity. What are you talking about?
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 6:43 am
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