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re: Another color revolution about to go down in Europe? Massive anti-Orban protest in Hungary
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:12 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The CIA ousted a duly elected foreign leader
No. The people ousted a leader who had fricked them over. That's what happens when a leader does something so unexplainable and unthinkable. To argue the CIA manufactured this, you have to argue they rejected EU integration and pushed the 180 Russia deal.
So is that your argument? The CIA thwarted EU integration and did a 180 with Russia behind the actual government's back?
1
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:20 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Imagine if a foreign power tried to oust George W. Bush because of the protests during the original Iraq War invasion.
But even that wasn't THAT unpopular...which shows just how big of a mistake it was to reject the EU.
What do you think would happen if a President pulled us out of NAFTA and our trade deals with the EU so that we could be subjugated to China economically. Not like right wing talking point bullshite, actual subjugation economically.
You wouldn't need a foreign power to create riots in response to that
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
The EU trade deal would have hurt Urkaine.
Russia was their biggest trading partner, and Russia gave them very favorable terms. The EU deal would have opened Ukraine up to western imports that the Ukranians couldn’t compete with, damaging local industry, at the same time, that deal would have cost them their Russian market.
Russia was their biggest trading partner, and Russia gave them very favorable terms. The EU deal would have opened Ukraine up to western imports that the Ukranians couldn’t compete with, damaging local industry, at the same time, that deal would have cost them their Russian market.
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:47 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Russia was their biggest trading partner,
That's why Russia started this whole thing in 2014. Fear.
quote:
and Russia gave them very favorable terms.
Not more favorable than EU terms
quote:
The EU deal would have opened Ukraine up to western imports that the Ukranians couldn’t compete with, damaging local industry, at the same time, that deal would have cost them their Russian market.
The problem is that you're seeing this as a Russian would, and not a person who wants Ukraine to develop their economy to integrate into the modern world. This sort of short-term, pre-90s ideology is exactly why Russia is such a shithole and economic weakling.
That's the entire point of integrating into the EU and developing a modern economy.
This scared Russia shitless not only because they couldn't subjugate Ukraine anymore and get favorable deals using the crab bucket theory, but also because in time Ukraine would surpass the US. This is an existential crisis for someone like Putin, especially since it would expose his horrible economic policies for Russia.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
trying to become developed European
They already were developed Europeans. They're actually trying to avoid becoming a third world shithole. Can't imagine who might be funding this 'protest.'
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:02 pm to blueboy
quote:
They already were developed Europeans.
Have you seen their ranking in per capita GDP across Europe?
It's gotten a lot better since EU integration, but they have a long way to go.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Focus ... if you can. You absurdly claim that a man who, had he remained in office, would still have Ukraine intact was a "Russian puppet."
The people ousted a leader who had fricked them over
So your argument is that delivering an intact Ukraine, including Crimea, would be "fricking Ukrainians over"?
Your argument is Pro-western Ukrainian politicians ceding Crimea to Russia, then ceding its eastern oblasts in war as well, along with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives is not "fricking Ukrainians over"?
That is a very 'special' position.
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:04 pm to WeeWee
quote:
If the CIA is that good, how did it f**k up the Arab spring in Libya and Syria so bad?
They didn't. This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 10:04 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:ONOZ!
Have you seen their ranking in per capita GDP across Europe?
More hostile primitives will sure fix that.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:06 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
So your argument is that delivering an intact Ukraine, including Crimea, would be "fricking Ukrainians over"?
They would be a literal puppet of Russia, subjugated to Russia entirely economically.
quote:
Your argument is Pro-western Ukrainian politicians ceding Crimea to Russia, then ceding its eastern oblasts in war as well, along with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives is not "fricking Ukrainians over"?
Russian invasion did that.
Why are we pretending that these were some legal, political or economic developments?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:07 pm to blueboy
quote:
ONOZ!
More hostile primitives will sure fix that.
White flag post
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Sorry!
That's why Russia started this whole thing in 2014. Fear.
Russia did NOT start this whole thing. We did. We did when we stupidly sponsored a coup d'etat and junta insertion to illegally overthrow a legitimately elected President.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:11 pm to blueboy
I mean when you're arguing a pro-Russia side when Hungary has lapped them in economic terms since joining the EU, when we're discussing economic competition, I get why you had to wave it by posting non-responsive nonsense.
IIRC< Russia's PCGDP is lower than the world average. Shithole status: confirmed
IIRC< Russia's PCGDP is lower than the world average. Shithole status: confirmed
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:No.
They would be a literal puppet of Russia
They would be a literal neutral country ..... a literal intact nonpulverized contented neutral european country .... literally at peace.
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:13 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
We did when we stupidly sponsored a coup d'etat and junta insertion to illegally overthrow a legitimately elected President.
How did the CIA convince Yanukovych to thwart EU integration, exactly?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:13 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
They would be a literal neutral country.
They would be economically subjugated to Russia under threat of invasion if they stepped out of line.
"Neutral" is a very euphemistic way to describe that.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Irrelevant. Thwarting EU integration (which was not going to happen anymore than imminent NATO membership) was in Ukraine's best interest at the moment. The CIA bribed and manipulated MPs to insist on EU integration. Why do you ask?
How did the CIA convince Yanukovych to thwart EU integration, exactly?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Irrelevant.
The act that cause the civil uprising is irrelevant? How?
quote:
Thwarting EU integration (which was not going to happen anymore than imminent NATO membership)
Why? They had been working on it and taking steps for like 10 years or something prior to 2014.
Who would have prevented the integration? Russia?
quote:
was in Ukraine's best interest at the moment
By subjugating it to third world status by being totally dependent on a third world economy (Russia)?
quote:
The CIA bribed and manipulated MPs to insist on EU integration
w
h
a
t
?
Was the CIA manipulating the entire EU, too?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 10:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Facts not in evidence.
They would be economically subjugated to Russia
Regardless, Ukraine was a historical trading partner, and allied with Russia forever. There is no comparison between Ukraine's economic situation under Yanukovych and the present clusterfrick. That you can neither see, nor acknowledge that fact is frankly incredible.
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