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re: Annual Juneteenth was not really a thing thread
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:20 pm to deuceiswild
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:20 pm to deuceiswild
quote:
We can agree on your second paragraph. But likely for different reasons. Racism was indeed a product of slavery and not the cause of it.
Slavery couldn’t exist in the American form without racism. If so there would have been millions of white slaves in America. Slavery not matter it’s reasoning or incarnation through the history of the world is based on a division of some kind, class, caste, race, etc. In the case of African slaves, it’s American adoption of European racism to justify slavery just the same as they did. It may not have begun here but the differences between the races and clear idea of one as better than the other led to who was chosen as slaves at that point.
Think about it like this, we’re we british colonies right? Didn’t the brits have entire criminal populations they transported to work an unknown land on their behalf? Why could that have not been repeated because is that not justified for than enslavement of at that point, free Africans?
3
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:23 pm to baybeefeetz
I've heard about Juneteenth as long as I can remember. Dallas has had a parade/festival for a long time.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:25 pm to LABred08
Nevermind. Misread.
British penal colony in Australia was after Britain outlawed slavery, I believe, FWIW.
British penal colony in Australia was after Britain outlawed slavery, I believe, FWIW.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:27 pm to LABred08
I'm calling BS. No one not from Texas ever heard of Juneteenth before two years ago.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:32 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Nevermind. Misread.
British penal colony in Australia was after Britain outlawed slavery, I believe, FWIW.
But regardless, as American colonies that’s possible free labor from the our ruling nation, but that’s not the route America chose. Free labor, from free people who are different rather than free labor from alike people who owe a debt to society. A society at that point the colonies are still a part of. It was a choice, not circumstance.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:45 pm to baybeefeetz
The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all slaves. Just the ones in states that joined the Confederacy. Kentucky and Maryland still had them and were considered Northern States. It really doesn't bother me that the Black community celebrates it. It was a big day in history for them, just like most of the Country celebrates the 4th of July.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:48 pm to LABred08
We can simply disagree here for many reasons.
People were by and large enslaved because they were vulnerable. No other reason than that. As Europeans began civilizing and forming countries and able to defend themselves, and also as technology and travel and transport became easier, Europeans needed another group to enslave. Africans were not only vulnerable in many instances due to not being advanced enough to fend off Europeans, but they were also being sold by their own people. Africans enslaved other Africans who were vulnerable, and sold them to Europeans.
When Europeans first arrived in America, Africans were the best place to acquire slaves. It was cheaper and easier. They didn't enslave whites in America (even vulnerable ones) because it was illegal.
I'll leave that part at that, and with a belief that you may not have an accurate understanding of the role England played in ending slavery. Hell, they were the SOLE reason it was ended almost worldwide.
On to your argument about racism... some of it was explained above. When Europeans got here, it just so happens that Africa was the place to go for slaves. It had nothing to do with their being black. It was simply that they were vulnerable and easy to acquire.
Now... even before the EP was signed, there were thousands of free blacks in this country. And many of them lived right there among the whites. I'm not trying to paint a pretty picture of harmony here. Not saying they had it good. But it certainly wasn't THAT bad, relative to the way we make it out to have been today. But then, the EP was signed and there was a mass exodus of freed slaves from the south migrating north. These people didn't know how to... "behave" for lack of a better word. They were harsh, brash, and ignorant much like their former owners. They had a different "attitude". The freed blacks who were already up there didn't like them very much, because they knew what it would ultimately mean for them. And they turned out correct. Suddenly racism becomes a pervasive thing. Whites who previously had blacks living among them didn't want to bother trying to differentiate which blacks were which. Instead they simply didn't want them around at all.
Racism is a PRODUCT of slavery in this country, not a cause of it.
This is very simplified, of course. And there's a lot more to the story. I'm all ears if you can show where anything I said is wrong. I genuinely want to hear it. It's possible you'll be able to call some of it an incomplete truth. I am no expert. But I feel pretty well read on this part of our country's history,
People were by and large enslaved because they were vulnerable. No other reason than that. As Europeans began civilizing and forming countries and able to defend themselves, and also as technology and travel and transport became easier, Europeans needed another group to enslave. Africans were not only vulnerable in many instances due to not being advanced enough to fend off Europeans, but they were also being sold by their own people. Africans enslaved other Africans who were vulnerable, and sold them to Europeans.
When Europeans first arrived in America, Africans were the best place to acquire slaves. It was cheaper and easier. They didn't enslave whites in America (even vulnerable ones) because it was illegal.
I'll leave that part at that, and with a belief that you may not have an accurate understanding of the role England played in ending slavery. Hell, they were the SOLE reason it was ended almost worldwide.
On to your argument about racism... some of it was explained above. When Europeans got here, it just so happens that Africa was the place to go for slaves. It had nothing to do with their being black. It was simply that they were vulnerable and easy to acquire.
Now... even before the EP was signed, there were thousands of free blacks in this country. And many of them lived right there among the whites. I'm not trying to paint a pretty picture of harmony here. Not saying they had it good. But it certainly wasn't THAT bad, relative to the way we make it out to have been today. But then, the EP was signed and there was a mass exodus of freed slaves from the south migrating north. These people didn't know how to... "behave" for lack of a better word. They were harsh, brash, and ignorant much like their former owners. They had a different "attitude". The freed blacks who were already up there didn't like them very much, because they knew what it would ultimately mean for them. And they turned out correct. Suddenly racism becomes a pervasive thing. Whites who previously had blacks living among them didn't want to bother trying to differentiate which blacks were which. Instead they simply didn't want them around at all.
Racism is a PRODUCT of slavery in this country, not a cause of it.
This is very simplified, of course. And there's a lot more to the story. I'm all ears if you can show where anything I said is wrong. I genuinely want to hear it. It's possible you'll be able to call some of it an incomplete truth. I am no expert. But I feel pretty well read on this part of our country's history,
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:05 pm to deuceiswild
quote:
deuceiswild
So you’re saying, for the most part, racism in America did not exist prior to the freeing of slaves?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:07 pm to baybeefeetz
If anything, Juneteenth is a reminder that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't emancipate anyone.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:08 pm to LABred08
going to be a holiday now, bill passed the Senate, house will pass it and Biden will sign it making it a Federal Holiday.
MSN Link
MSN Link
quote:
he Senate on Tuesday unanimously passed a measure that would establish a federal holiday for Juneteenth, the day that marks the end of slavery in the United States.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:14 pm to LABred08
I'm saying it became pervasive and much more widespread after the EP. And Mostly due to southern blacks "contaminating" the rest of the country. Some of it lingers to this day. Not as much as we're lead to believe by a long shot. But some of it is there. And where exactly is it most pervasive? Why, in the north of course. Again, the opposite of what we've been led to believe.
It sounds harsh, but it's not my intent.
And even in spite of the blatant racism, blacks were indeed overcoming, and at a rapid pace. At least up until the 1960s. And that can easily be verified. But it also brings up an entirely different discussion topic before the current discussion has ended.
It sounds harsh, but it's not my intent.
And even in spite of the blatant racism, blacks were indeed overcoming, and at a rapid pace. At least up until the 1960s. And that can easily be verified. But it also brings up an entirely different discussion topic before the current discussion has ended.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:47 pm to FightinTigersDammit
Without the EP, would any slaves have been freed?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:51 pm to baybeefeetz
It's not a thing.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:59 pm to baybeefeetz
Only after the Union occupied those areas.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:07 pm to AubieinNC2009
quote:
going to be a holiday now, bill passed the Senate, house will pass it and Biden will sign it making it a Federal Holiday.
I suppose LBJ day on Aug 27th is now going to get extended nationally? How about San Jacinto Day on Apr 21? All in all the Feds/Admin is trying their best to force a historical event that is held near and dear regionally to all - what will happen is akin to Memorial Day when folks used to know the meaning - but now it is all about fireworks and hanging out. Even our current Admin does not know or respect Memorial Day. Juneteenth has been a respected state holiday in TX for a long while - celebrated in the east - but if it goes national the meaning will get distorted in short time. Just like Memorial Day.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:09 pm to braindeadboxer
quote:
Jokes on them. They are still slaves to white liberals
Same folks that owned slaves in the first place
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:11 pm to LABred08
quote:
Is that not absurd?
It wouldn’t be nearly as absurd if it had a better name.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:13 pm to baybeefeetz
I have no problem with it.. 
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:19 pm to Jeauxs Geaux
Juneteenth is a holiday that should be celebrated by all Americans. It officially ended the slavery of African Americans. Independence day is celebrated by all Americans, white and black, even though for most black people, it did not represent freedom from anything. It's ignorant to say it's a black or white holiday, it celebrates a moment in our countries history, where a great thing happened. I had no idea that parts of Texas were still fighting the Civil War so long after Lee surrendered to Grant.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:29 pm to baybeefeetz
There has been a Juneteenth celebration in Denver for years. I recall them having a parade/festival.
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