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Started By
Message
An honest discussion about health care rationing
Posted on 4/25/18 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 4/25/18 at 12:58 pm
Cases like this Alphie Evans case are sad for everyone. However, in this Poli Board fishbowl, discussion typically goes off the rails as an attack on “socialist medicine.” The suggestion by right wing folk being that the evil is the rationing by the English National Health which decides to stop paying for care when the doctors say the cause is hopeless.
But any honest discussion of health care payment systems must also acknowledge that private health insurers ration care every day through denials of coverage and the their own internal determinations that treatment is “no longer reasonable or necessary.”
It doesn’t matter which system one has for payment of health care costs, under all systems resources are limited and are rationed. Also, hospitals ration services because they have limited beds, etc.
In a case like Alphie’s, you can be well assured that his parents are not capable of private payment for 24/7 life support for two years. No normal person is. They also can’t force the NHS to pay that cost forever. If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
I’m not getting into the isssue in the Alphie case about travel to Italy, because if the family can do it at their expense or at some donor’s expense they should be able to do it, no question. But any honest discussion of the obligation to continue paying for life support has to acknowledge that under National Health or private insurance, the result would be the same.
But any honest discussion of health care payment systems must also acknowledge that private health insurers ration care every day through denials of coverage and the their own internal determinations that treatment is “no longer reasonable or necessary.”
It doesn’t matter which system one has for payment of health care costs, under all systems resources are limited and are rationed. Also, hospitals ration services because they have limited beds, etc.
In a case like Alphie’s, you can be well assured that his parents are not capable of private payment for 24/7 life support for two years. No normal person is. They also can’t force the NHS to pay that cost forever. If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
I’m not getting into the isssue in the Alphie case about travel to Italy, because if the family can do it at their expense or at some donor’s expense they should be able to do it, no question. But any honest discussion of the obligation to continue paying for life support has to acknowledge that under National Health or private insurance, the result would be the same.
25
Posted on 4/25/18 at 12:59 pm to TBoy
Our system is broken, but socializing it doesn't fix it.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:01 pm to TBoy
quote:
If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
you certain about this Rico? you may want to check your facts and get back to us on it
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:01 pm to TBoy
Health care is a relatively new system. Socialized isn’t right but ours has issues too. A hybrid of the best ideas will eventually win out. A healthy discussion without accusing the others of communism is needed.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:03 pm to TBoy
quote:
I’m not getting into the isssue in the Alphie case about travel to Italy, because if the family can do it at their expense or at some donor’s expense they should be able to do it, no question.
That is at least half the issue in this case though.
quote:
But any honest discussion
By ignoring half the issue, I am not sure you framed in a way conducive to honest discussion.
Perhaps we can focus on this:
quote:
If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
Prove this claim and then maybe a discussion can be had.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:04 pm to TBoy
quote:
n a case like Alphie’s, you can be well assured that his parents are not capable of private payment
So you are saying we should get rid of welfare and food stamps and let nature run it course?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:05 pm to olddawg26
quote:
Health care is a relatively new system. Socialized isn’t right but ours has issues too
Our health CARE is top notch. Coverage is a different issue. I make this distinction, because the political machine has effectively lumped it all under one umbrella in order to conflate the issue in our minds thus causing confusion.
Universal coverage undermines the care, and that can't be ignored.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:08 pm to BigJim
quote:quote:
If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
Prove this claim and then maybe a discussion can be had.
He can't, because it's not true. I work in health care, and insurance does not stop treatment. Terminal kids receive it until the end.
Now there are other severe problems with insurance and what they will and won't cover, and that problem has been severely exacerbated since Obamacare was enacted. It grows worse each year as well.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:08 pm to TBoy
quote:
But any honest discussion of health care payment systems must also acknowledge that private health insurers ration care every day through denials of coverage and the their own internal determinations that treatment is “no longer reasonable or necessary.”
An insurance company is not forcing, by armed guard, anybody to die. You want to try experimental drugs or treatment, you can go do that.
quote:
In a case like Alphie’s, you can be well assured that his parents are not capable of private payment for 24/7 life support for two years. No normal person is. They also can’t force the NHS to pay that cost forever. If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
Depending on the policy. However that's not addressing the fact that no matter how wealthy one is, under socialized medicine, they would not be allowed to take their kid for treatment.
Italy has agreed to take him...all costs paid for.
Your argument is NOT valid at all! It' sick in fact.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:09 pm to TBoy
quote:
However, in this Poli Board fishbowl, discussion typically goes off the rails as an attack on “socialist medicine.”
That's not the rails.
That's the truth.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:10 pm to Midget Death Squad
Yeah I said system in the same sentence you knew what I meant. I fully understand our care and facilities are the best in the world.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:11 pm to BigJim
quote:
If he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
Prove this claim and then maybe a discussion can be had.
Until the ACA, most private insurance plans had annual and/or lifetime caps. There is no doubt that he would have run up against those and lost his coverage.
Until the ACA. Thanks, Obama!
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:12 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Until the ACA, most private insurance plans had annual and/or lifetime caps. There is no doubt that he would have run up against those and lost his coverage.
That's a lie.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:13 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
most
quote:
no doubt
Hmmmm.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:14 pm to TBoy
quote:
But any honest discussion of the obligation to continue paying for life support has to acknowledge that under National Health or private insurance, the result would be the same.
We do this every day through our welfare system
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:14 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Until the ACA, most private insurance plans had annual and/or lifetime caps. There is no doubt that he would have run up against those and lost his coverage.
That's a lie.
Mine had a lifetime cap several years ago.
That said, the lifetime cap was $3 million dollars. Even at $150k per year, that would take 20 years. I don't recall there being an annual cap on any insurance plan I have had.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:15 pm to BigJim
quote:
Prove this claim and then maybe a discussion can be had.
He can't.
quote:
I am not sure you framed in a way conducive to honest discussion.
He has no intention of having an honest discussion.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:15 pm to BamaAtl
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:15 pm to TBoy
quote:
f he was in America, the private insurer would have “pulled the plug” on payment a long time ago.
I work in hospice care. We often carry pediatric patients. In terminally ill pediatrics in this country you can have WHATEVER treatment you want. No worries as to cost. You can even have palliative care and the most aggressive treatments at the very same time.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 1:16 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Until the ACA, most private insurance plans had annual and/or lifetime caps. There is no doubt that he would have run up against those and lost his coverage.
Until the ACA. Thanks, Obama!
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