re: 52% of women are now child free. Take that patriarchy!

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Then you tell me who is going to have the children if women don't.

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I think they would if we simply removed the pressure that they now feel to put careers above motherhood. I’ve made that very clear in previous posts.

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Even if they weren't...so what? That's YOUR red herring this whole time. Like I said before, it's never been my claim that not a single woman in the world can pass boot camp, nor has it been my claim that if a woman can, she shouldn't be allowed to join.

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Well, then we agree on this. We both seem to think that women should be allowed to compete on a level playing field and that few will succeed when the requirements include strenuous exertion. The poster I rebutted, which rebuttal was the start of our conversation, did not seem to agree with us. He wanted them “to know their place”.

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The original point (if you can still remember what it is, since you're constantly straining to get away from it) doesn't depend on the practical likelihood of an actual draft. All it depends on is the acknowledgment that when the ship is sinking, everyone intuitively knows that women and children are getting on the lifeboats first. Everybody. Everybody knows it.

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In the first place, quit flattering yourself that I’m fleeing your point. What you type above was not even true when the Titanic sunk. Most men behaved that way, but some did not. I make that point because of your repetition and capitalization of the word “everybody”.

To what extent is it true today? Among the younger set? A lot less than it was in 1912. Either way, it seems a rotten deal for a young woman to be pressured into a lifestyle she does not want because she might be on a sinking ship one day (or some other unlikely scenario).

Women and men are made very different by nature. It seems very likely to me that without social coercion, women will tend to want to be moms and men will tend to want to be protectors.

This does not mean that I don’t think society has a role in encouraging these behaviors. It’s just that I think that role involves positive encouragement not disapprobation for the opposite. Praise women for their beautiful children as we honor those men who eschewed the safety of the lifeboats 114 years ago.

What I would not want to go back to is the negative pressure on women to live as we want instead of as they want.

ETA: Going hiking near Sedona now, so it might be a while to respond.

America is in a world of hurt.

I'll take what destroyed our country for $ 500 Alex

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Spoken like a true patriot.

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Yep. I'm not a commie.