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Started By
Message
re: 100 Mosques randomly surveilled. 81 of them preaching jihadism and hatred of non-Muslims”
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:29 am to touchdownjeebus
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:29 am to touchdownjeebus
quote:It means "if God is willing." Meaning technically in Islam, a Muslim does not know for sure if they are going to "heaven." They can only hope they have done enough in this life that Allah will look favorably upon them. This is all because Allah is NOT immanent (tanzih) like YHWH.
Now in actual context, culturally, what does it mean?
This is a major, fundamental distinction between the 2 conceptions. Muslims are extremely protective of Allah's singleness and transcendence. They consider trinitarianism to be blasphemous. In contrast, Jesus called YHWH "abba" which is an intimate term like "daddy." That would be offensive to a Muslim to talk about Allah that way
1
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:43 am to Placekicker
That's not the practice of religion. That's "insurrectiony" and should be investigated.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 11:00 am to Squirrelmeister
Squirrel, you never answered the question of how someone was able to achieve the magic trick of convincing an entire people group to do a complete theological 180 by switching from polytheism to monotheism. How did they erase an entire shared cultural experience? Also, allegedly their neighbors were polytheistic too. They would have constant reminders of the lie.
When Jesus and the NT authors quote the Torah, they do so from a monotheistic perspective. If there had been polytheism present (and still present according to you) why wouldn't they stumble over those passages? Why would the revisionists have left those vestiges in the texts? Why not scrub them from existence? If they had been polytheistic, how would we know about it today but the 2nd temple Jews didn't? Ludicrous and completely lacks parsimony. I have no problem acknowledging the hyperbolic use of numbers amongst ancient cultures, particularly the bronze age, meaning I can allow that perhaps the scope of Jewish culture was exaggerated in their texts, as was the custom for people of their time. However, to completely revise history and make them into something they hated with a passion is just madness
Why did the Assyrians and Babylonians take only one Canaanite tribe into captivity? Why pick on that 1 tribe out of several if they were all so similar?
Greek and Roman texts do not characterize Jews as just another Canaanite "tribe."
When the Israelites/Judeans were carried off into exile, they already had a strictly monotheistic theology. They stayed monotheistic throughout their time there. If they had been polytheistic, there would have been no reason for them to not syncretistically accept the polytheism of the pagans. Do you know the story of Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego? Let me guess, you think that's fabricated.
The people who are advancing this revisionist history just aren't thinking about the big picture. These are questions they can't answer cogently
When Jesus and the NT authors quote the Torah, they do so from a monotheistic perspective. If there had been polytheism present (and still present according to you) why wouldn't they stumble over those passages? Why would the revisionists have left those vestiges in the texts? Why not scrub them from existence? If they had been polytheistic, how would we know about it today but the 2nd temple Jews didn't? Ludicrous and completely lacks parsimony. I have no problem acknowledging the hyperbolic use of numbers amongst ancient cultures, particularly the bronze age, meaning I can allow that perhaps the scope of Jewish culture was exaggerated in their texts, as was the custom for people of their time. However, to completely revise history and make them into something they hated with a passion is just madness
Why did the Assyrians and Babylonians take only one Canaanite tribe into captivity? Why pick on that 1 tribe out of several if they were all so similar?
Greek and Roman texts do not characterize Jews as just another Canaanite "tribe."
When the Israelites/Judeans were carried off into exile, they already had a strictly monotheistic theology. They stayed monotheistic throughout their time there. If they had been polytheistic, there would have been no reason for them to not syncretistically accept the polytheism of the pagans. Do you know the story of Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego? Let me guess, you think that's fabricated.
The people who are advancing this revisionist history just aren't thinking about the big picture. These are questions they can't answer cogently
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 11/6/25 at 2:15 pm to touchdownjeebus
Lol
Nope, same God, they just reject Him. Try reading the bible. And, why do you have to be so ugly to people with whom you disagree? Bless you.
quote:
and Jews don’t believe in Christ at all, so must be a different God too.
Some of y’all are retards.
Nope, same God, they just reject Him. Try reading the bible. And, why do you have to be so ugly to people with whom you disagree? Bless you.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 2:19 pm to DD_Rolltide
quote:
Wait until it’s survelling the christian churches and it’ll be persecution and end times
Was it the government doing the surveillance?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:13 pm to Squirrelmeister
Squirrel, where are you
get back in here you fraud and answer these questions
I swear, on this board you're to religion what SFP is to jurisprudence. Both of you are fricking looney
get back in here you fraud and answer these questions
I swear, on this board you're to religion what SFP is to jurisprudence. Both of you are fricking looney
Posted on 11/6/25 at 7:21 pm to Placekicker
Liberalism is a cancer. It literally causes oneself to consume and destroy from within. How liberals embrace these ULTRA RIGHT scum defies logic. They won't wake up until it's too late and we're like western Europe where only government overthrows can save them.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:18 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Your quotations of the psalms do not show polytheism.
Quit playing. They absolutely do.
quote:
That language is about praxis. Worship YHWH
Sure, I’ll give you that.
quote:
fake gods
Fake gods in the sky? The divine assembly is made of fake gods? Yahweh is the king above all fake gods? Yahweh is so much better than fake gods? Yahweh is jealous of fake gods? Yahweh will judge fake gods? Yahweh will kill the fake gods and assume the inheritances of fake gods?
The Bible authors considered those deities as spiritual, sons of the most high god, very powerful with authority in heaven and on earth, but that they weren’t doing a good job and weren’t worthy of worship. The Bible authors including the authors of the Psalms considered those other deities to be very real.
quote:
It's really not hard to understand
Agreed
quote:
When the Bible says not to worship worldly things like money
The Bible says not to worship the other divine beings in heaven who are Yahweh’s competitors and brothers. It also says not to “serve” those other deities, which implies those other deities had wills and agendas. Money nether has will or an agenda and doesn’t live in heaven and it’s not something Yahweh can judge for its actions.
quote:
do you think the authors were saying they believed money was a literal god?
You are bringing up this nonsensical idea of money being a god. The many gods are named in the Bible. Baal, Asherah, Chemosh, Nehushtan, Nebu, Hadad, Anat, Resheph, and about 40 or so more all called out by name.
quote:
The Bible said many things about other gods being fake
It says nothing of the sort. It implies they are extremely powerful, but that Yahweh is even better than all of them. Even the Hebrew words normally translated as “idols” - elilim and gilulim - literally mean “little gods” and “shite gods” respectively, with the root of the words being the root for “gods”.
As many times as Yahweh in the Bible says to quit worshipping all those other gods because he is jealous… ask yourself if it makes sense to conclude that Yahweh is jealous of nonexistent fake gods.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:55 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:Not only are you mistaken, you are disingenuous.
Quit playing. They absolutely do.
Number of times YHWH is mentioned in the psalms - somewhere around 916.
Number of times "other gods" is mentioned in the psalms - barely double digits
you are a loser
quote:Fake gods who people CLAIM are in the sky
Fake gods in the sky?
quote:The holy ones are the assembly of heavenly beings, like the angels.
The divine assembly is made of fake gods?
quote:Yes to all. Fake gods. No different than the golden calf.
Yahweh is the king above all fake gods? Yahweh is so much better than fake gods? Yahweh is jealous of fake gods? Yahweh will judge fake gods? Yahweh will kill the fake gods and assume the inheritances of fake gods?
quote:No they didn't. They are constantly called fake gods ALL THROUGHOUT scripture. Again, you can't square polytheism with the witness of the prophets.
The Bible authors considered those deities as spiritual, sons of the most high god, very powerful with authority in heaven and on earth
quote:Then how are you so stupendously wrong? Popular level authors, I get. They're selling books to make money. You? You're just sad and pathetic to buy into this claptrap
Agreed
quote:No it most certainly does not
The Bible says not to worship the other divine beings in heaven who are Yahweh’s competitors and brothers
quote:It most certainly does not imply that and you are performing eisegesis.
It also says not to “serve” those other deities, which implies those other deities had wills and agendas
quote:It is A "god" just like all the fake gods. It's about loyalty, purity, holiness, perseverance, etc.
You are bringing up this nonsensical idea of money being a god
Squirrel, how is it that you are on the one hand claiming that Judaism was originally polytheistic but then are also claiming that some people managed to remove that from their religio-cultural history and became monotheistic? WHICH IS IT? You keep quoting evidence of polytheism in scripture but also say they became monotheistic. Make up your mind.
quote:All fake. None considered to be "real" by Judaism as a whole - EVER. I gave you a word count from just the Psalms. It's staggering. A mountain compared to a molehill. Astronomically greater.
The many gods are named in the Bible. Baal, Asherah, Chemosh, Nehushtan, Nebu, Hadad, Anat, Resheph, and about 40 or so more all called out by name.
quote:YOU JUST QUOTED SOME of the things. My word you are dense
It says nothing of the sort
quote:Not in any noumenal sort of way. Absolutely, unequivocally not.
It implies they are extremely powerful
quote:Well of course. The godly life is "better" than the pagan life, spiritually speaking.
that Yahweh is even better than all of them
quote:So you agree they're fake. Thank you
Even the Hebrew words normally translated as “idols” - elilim and gilulim - literally mean “little gods” and “shite gods”
quote:NEWSFLASH - it's not about the "gods" themselves. They are the mcguffin. Just like the golden calf. Just like money and all the other "deadly sins."
yourself if it makes sense to conclude that Yahweh is jealous of nonexistent fake gods
It's amazing that you literally cannot grasp these simple spiritual concepts. It's totally, completely eludes you.
BTW, you skipped several other points I made in the other posts. This is my surprised face
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:30 pm to RebRxV
quote:
why do you have to be so ugly to people with whom you disagree? Bless you.
Because this isn’t opinion. This is like someone arguing that the earth is 6k yrs old. It’s retarded.
You don’t have to like the Muslims. I think their entire faith is a farce, created to further trade routes and to give an advantage to Muhammad, who was bank rolled by his wife, but that doesn’t change history.
It’s the same “God”. It’s an Abrahamaic faith.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:32 pm to Squirrelmeister
You keep trying to bifurcate idol worship from other sins so you can make a carve out for "polytheism." What you are missing is that the NATURE of the sin is paramount. The greek word for sin in the NT is hamartia. It means to miss the mark. It's an archery term. It basically doesn't matter what's outside the target; money, sloth, envy, pride, idol worship, selfishness, etc. God is "jealous" that the person gave their allegiance to something WORLDLY as opposed to him. God is disappointed that they went their own way instead of going God's way. This was the consistent message of the prophets and it harmonizes with the writings of Jesus' first followers. It's a consistent theme throughout scripture.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:37 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Squirrel, you never answered the question of how someone was able to achieve the magic trick of convincing an entire people group to do a complete theological 180 by switching from polytheism to monotheism.
It was done over hundreds of years of propaganda and coercion, but it is monolatry now, not monotheism. Jews and Christians alike acknowledge powerful beings that rival their “one true God” (see Ephesians 6:12) but that only one of them is worthy of worship and only one gets the modern English label of “God”. There’s no monotheism anywhere in the Bible, not even the Shema. Shema Yisrael, Yahweh Eloheinu, Yahweh Echad. Listen Israel to Yahweh our god, Yahweh only! One of the very “monotheism verses” in the Bible literally is saying only listen to “our god” which presupposes the existence of other gods.
quote:
How did they erase an entire shared cultural experience?
They didn’t. Polytheism is still all throughout the modern Bible. Sure they tried to erase some of it but they failed.
Compare a modern translation that uses the Dead Sea scrolls and Septuagint where the Masoretic Text was altered:
ESV
quote:
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.
NASB
quote:
8“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, When He separated the sons of mankind, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the sons of Israel. 9“For the LORD’S portion is His people; Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance.
Big difference eh? The DSS and LXX align. The MT diverges and has been altered. They tried to replace “sons of God” (bene El) with “sons of Israel” (bene YisraEl). That’s a big difference in meaning. And when this was happening - God separating the sons of man into different nations, Israel didn’t even exist and wouldn’t exist for a long time, plus it doesn’t make sense to say the sons of Israel in that context.
Same chapter in Deuteronomy…
ESV
quote:
43“Rejoice with him, O heavens;
bow down to him, all gods, for he avenges the blood of his children and takes vengeance on his adversaries. He repays those who hate him and cleanses his people’s land.”
NASB
quote:
43“Rejoice, you nations, with His people; For He will avenge the blood of His servants, And will return vengeance on His adversaries, And will atone for His land and His people.”
Big difference again. In the older more original version we have the other gods of heaven rejoicing and bowing down to worship Yahweh. No mention of the other gods in the NASB.
quote:
Why did the Assyrians and Babylonians take only one Canaanite tribe into captivity? Why pick on that 1 tribe out of several if they were all so similar? Greek and Roman texts do not characterize Jews as just another Canaanite "tribe." When the Israelites/Judeans were carried off into exile, they already had a strictly monotheistic theology.
Open a history book. Babylonians and Assyrians - the standard practice of all imperial forces in that part of the world - was to move around people groups to avoid future rebellions and they would take the scribes and educated craftsmen where they were needed. There were Egyptian, Ethiopian, Greek, Phoenician, Persian, Assyrian, Edomite, Philistine, Persian, Hindi, and Aramean slaves in Babylon. I don’t know what you’re smoking. And the Yahweh-only worship in Judah only began maybe in the Persian period but more likely during the Greek period according to- ya know- historians and biblical archaeologists.
You don’t read history and you don’t read the Bible. The prophets’ constant excuse as to why they were defeated and exiled is precisely due to their polytheism and worship of the other gods of heaven.
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:38 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
It means "if God is willing." Meaning technically in Islam, a Muslim does not know for sure if they are going to "heaven." They can only hope they have done enough in this life that Allah will look favorably upon them. This is all because Allah is NOT immanent (tanzih) like YHWH.
It means if god wills it, and has nothing to do contextually or culturally about if a Muslim will go to heaven.
It is a polite way of saying no.
“Hey Khamis, any chance a deal can be made today?”
“If God wills it.”
That deal ain’t getting done.
It’s also a way to confirm that something is in God’s hands and the outcome is uncertain.
“Hey Khamis, can we expect delivery today?”
“If God wills it”
Khamis doesn’t know, he is uncertain.
I’ve spent YEARS in the Middle East, and I’ve talked to clerics, imams, dignitaries, and regular folks, and this is the contextual and cultural meaning.
You’ve twisted it to prove whatever the frick point you’re trying to prove, and the only point that is needed is simple: Islam is an abrahamaic faith. Done.
You don’t have to believe in Islam. I sure and the hell don’t. That doesn’t change that they worship the same God.
Hey buddy, so do the gnostics, baptists, orthodox, Jews, Sufi, Shia, Sunni, etc. you don’t have to believe in their teachings, but it’s the same God.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 9:41 pm to touchdownjeebus
quote:
It’s retarded.
Retarded is believing that people who think their god, who wants them to kill people who disagree with them, worship the same God as people who believe they are commanded to love their neighbor as themselves.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:29 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Number of times "other gods" is mentioned in the psalms - barely double digits
So they are mentioned. Glad we agree on that.
quote:
Yes to all. Fake gods. No different than the golden calf.
Hey stupid, they didn’t believe the golden bull was a god. It was an idol that represented their patron deity, Yahweh. They used the golden bull to invoke Yahweh and to worship Yahweh in their more ancient religion. Dummy
quote:
They are constantly called fake gods ALL THROUGHOUT scripture
Nope
quote:
Squirrel, how is it that you are on the one hand claiming that Judaism was originally polytheistic
This is a constant complaint and lament of the major and minor prophets which you have never read.
quote:
All fake. None considered to be "real" by Judaism as a whole - EVER.
quote:
BTW, you skipped several other points I made in the other posts.
I’m not going to respond to every minor retarded thing you allege.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:31 pm to RebRxV
quote:
people who think their god, who wants them to kill people who disagree with them, worship the same God as people who believe they are commanded to love their neighbor as themselves.
Yep, same one. You don’t have to believe what they believe, but historically speaking, same one.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:57 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
God is "jealous" that the person gave their allegiance to something WORLDLY as opposed to him.
No dummy, Yahweh is jealous of the other sons of El (his father). The Hebrew word for “jealous” in exodus 20 means a resentment due to a divided loyalty in an interpersonal relationship.
You think exodus 20:3 says “you shall have no (fake) gods before me”?
No, it literally means in Hebrew “you shall not have other gods beside my face.” The context is that the Israelites had images or sculptures representing Yahweh in their temples. Some of these images included “standing stones” and golden bulls and the ark of the covenant.
quote:
God is "jealous" that the person gave their allegiance to something WORLDLY as opposed to him.
“HEAVENLY” is the word you were looking for. The basis for which is that they believed the other gods were very powerful and very real and Yahweh wanted all the Israelites’ devotion instead of sharing it with the other deities.
Posted on 11/7/25 at 5:09 am to touchdownjeebus
quote:
Allah just means god in the monotheistic sense. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship Allah.
BS. The Muslims see Jesus Christ as the Anti Christ and main rival to Mohammed. They hate Jesus Christ with passion. They are not a real abrahamic religion like Christianity and Judaism.
Posted on 11/7/25 at 5:51 am to Placekicker
The mistake we made - and I humbly include myself in this - is to think that if we bring them in contact with our modernity for a period of time, they will liberalize and become like us. This was the mistake made by Clinton/Bush/Obama vis-a-vis China and it’s the mistake we (especially Europe) are making with the Muslims.
The collapse of the USSR made us over confident.
The collapse of the USSR made us over confident.
This post was edited on 11/7/25 at 5:52 am
Posted on 11/7/25 at 6:41 am to touchdownjeebus
quote:
they worship the same God. Hey buddy, so do the gnostics, baptists, orthodox, Jews, Sufi, Shia, Sunni, etc. you don’t have to believe in their teachings, but it’s the same God.
One of those stands out. There were several “Gnostic” schools of thought - achieving salvation using secret knowledge. In that broad definition, the apostle Paul was a Gnostic. Paul didn’t even believe Jesus came to earth, and that his death and resurrection occurred in the heavens, and that only those who possessed the heavenly secrets of Jesus’ sacrifice would be saved. One of those secrets was that Yahweh (Greek “Kyrios”) had taken a body of flesh and been killed by the gods of the firmament and then exalted and earned the name “Jesus”.
Markion of Sinope - who compiled the first Christian New Testament and who was later excommunicated - was a Gnostic. If it weren’t for him, we probably wouldn’t have any of Paul’s epistles today. He didn’t understand Jewish theology and came to believe Jesus was sent by the God Most High to earth to Earth as a ransom blood sacrifice to buy back the inhabitants of Earth from the evil creator deity Yahweh.
The Egyptian Gnostics had a similar belief to Markion, but that Jesus wasn’t a ransom blood sacrifice to Yahweh. They believed Jesus was sent by the most high God, specifically NOT in a body of flesh (he only appeared in human form but wasn’t a human), to give humans the secrets to escape this evil world.
So generally speaking, the Gnostics believed the god the Jews worshipped was evil, and so they did not worship the Jewish god.
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