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re: The intelligence of deer from different areas

Posted on 1/3/17 at 3:13 pm to
Posted by Ron Cheramie
The Cajun Hedgehog
Member since Aug 2016
5641 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 3:13 pm to
Old timers had it engrained in their heads that shooting a doe was a sin. They had very little deer back in the day. They have kept that mentality even though we have more deer than ever right now
Posted by EarlyBird
Member since Jun 2006
4109 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 3:21 pm to
The way it was described to me was "killing a doe is like killing three bucks". I guess it was because they perceived removing a doe as removing the three bucks it would produce. Of course that doesn't account for the number of does produced in the same time and the overall carrying capacity.
Posted by TheDrunkenTigah
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
18240 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

The whole cull thing is better in theory than reality to me, because it's hard to correctly implement in a club full of hunters with differing abilities to identify deer that need to be removed.


The editor of QDMA's magazine agrees with you, for a number of different reasons.

Why We Can’t Manage Deer Genetics

You're also right about shooting does, but how many is the question. You can talk to your biologist about possibly getting on DMAP, or just get some pointers from him on putting together a good doe harvest number based on camera counts or whatever he suggests.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87346 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:06 pm to
Nevermind-not worth it.
This post was edited on 1/3/17 at 4:11 pm
Posted by EarlyBird
Member since Jun 2006
4109 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:07 pm to
Thanks for the info.
Posted by EarlyBird
Member since Jun 2006
4109 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:14 pm to
I'm sure you can manage it to some extent, but the point is that there are a bunch of factors in play. Also, I'm more concerned with a hunter's ability to make the correct assumption. I think more immature deer get shot under the pretenses of being a "cull buck".
Posted by Ron Cheramie
The Cajun Hedgehog
Member since Aug 2016
5641 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:23 pm to
Didn't read but the "you can't see genetics". Spot on with that comment. The truth is that these older "cull bucks" have already bred does in your herd and their " inferior" genetics are out there.

The other part of that is that 50% of genetics come from momma
Posted by EarlyBird
Member since Jun 2006
4109 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:26 pm to
I agree. Mentioned in the article.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87346 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

Also, I'm more concerned with a hunter's ability to make the correct assumption. I think more immature deer get shot under the pretenses of being a "cull buck".
That's why you have people learn to age and have repercussions for screwing up. Besides the genetic factor, you're feeding one less older deer.
Posted by TheDrunkenTigah
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
18240 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

That's why you have people learn to age and have repercussions for screwing up. Besides the genetic factor, you're feeding one less older deer.


I don't think anyone is necessarily disagreeing with that. The author's main point is that killing "cull" bucks, at best, has very little impact on the overall gene pool. He contends there are much more effective ways to achieve the same goal, they just aren't as much fun as blasting a buck for the greater good.

ETA: The main argument made against this guy's point is that killing a territorial older buck may bring more desirable younger ones into the area. TIFWIW, he isn't paying me to argue his point for him and people are gonna do what they want when it comes to deer on their land.
This post was edited on 1/3/17 at 5:10 pm
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87346 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 5:08 pm to
I just think it's a poor article. Some of his examples are of people "doing it wrong".
Posted by TheDrunkenTigah
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
18240 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 5:12 pm to
I added an edit. He does come off a bit smug, but I did think it was worth the read.
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25348 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 5:14 pm to
doe to buck ratio
Posted by Citica8
Duckroost, LA
Member since Dec 2012
4030 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 7:36 pm to
This thread has taken a turn against the original post.

One big thing that Mississippi has done since I've been hunting it is what they classified as a legal buck. Going from 4 points or better to main beam and width at least puts it in a hunters head to look at it a little harder. In Louisiana, if it's got bone on top of hair blast away.

I personally hate dedicated doe days on private property but if it helps improve the overall herd I guess it's for the best. Just wish they would eliminate doe days during the rut and have a couple days available during the week earlier in rifle season.
Posted by Ron Cheramie
The Cajun Hedgehog
Member since Aug 2016
5641 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 7:42 pm to
quote:

I personally hate dedicated doe days on private land but if it helps improve the overall herd I guess it's for the best



What do you consider a healthy herd?

Do you really care about the health or do you just want to shoot bigger bucks?

Posted by Citica8
Duckroost, LA
Member since Dec 2012
4030 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 8:14 pm to
Ultimately, a good heard is one with an even to near even buck to doe ratio, deer with enough weight on them so they develop into what they should as well as survive, and populations that approach but not overcome the capacity of the tract of land they live on.


We don't have to worry as much down here with bitter winters but certain places have spring flooding and that takes a toll on a populations food sources as well as the energy to make it, during gestation. Also due to the current hog problem deer now have to compete for food with other animals.

Yes, I want to opportunity to shoot bucks with bigger racks, but I also want to kill a couple does to put meat in my freezer if that opportunity doesn't present itself. I prefer to do this early in the season so I'm not trying to put meat on the ground in December or January, possibly after a doe has already been bred by a mature buck whose genes you want to carry on throughout the herd.
Posted by bluemoons
the marsh
Member since Oct 2012
5868 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 8:18 pm to
I'm in the minority, but I do not believe deer are abnormally intelligent creatures.

I just think they have heightened senses and are terrified of literally everything.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87346 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 8:28 pm to
Posted by Citica8
Duckroost, LA
Member since Dec 2012
4030 posts
Posted on 1/3/17 at 9:09 pm to
Agree, but with added pressure and bad habits such as smoking, pissing out or next to the stand, disregarding wind direction and running 4wheelers up to or parking under a stand you expose them when hunters are in the woods. They have heightened senses to survive, but no one is arguing they are smart enough to look both ways before crossing the street.
Posted by LSUaFOOL
Jackson, La
Member since Jan 2008
1864 posts
Posted on 1/4/17 at 7:54 am to
I've only noticed that they have become more nocturnal during the last 20years. They are evolving to become night movers.
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