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Rifle - Ammo choice

Posted on 2/22/19 at 7:13 pm
Posted by LSUDAN1
Member since Oct 2010
11033 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 7:13 pm
My son got a 7mm-08 Savage Axis II XP for Christmas. I first bought Hornady 140grain Whitetail for it. Never could get consistent grouping. I bought some Federal Fusions and they grouped much better.

Just to make sure I bought Remington Coreloke and Winchester Super X. I want to do a test with all 4 rounds. What is the best method to test each round and get a good comparison in regards to grouping. Should I disregard first shot with a cold barrel and start from there. Should I let barrel cool between rounds as well and how long.
Posted by 257WBY
Member since Feb 2014
7412 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 7:18 pm to
Always shoot for a group with a cold/cool barrel.

Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19409 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 7:43 pm to
That's loaded question. I think there is limited utility in 3 or 4 shot groups, especially when dealing with a cold bore. I did a lot of testing with my Ruger American .30-06, setting up a chronograph, logging chamber temperature with a thermocouple, testing various factory and hand loads (I was stationed up in PA with little else to do on my days off and plenty of extra cash ). I found that as long as the barrel was free floating I would have very little temperature-induced variation. I would shoot from a dead cold bore on a winter day, with cold ammo, in 10-shot groups and with the loads the rifle liked most I could cover the hole with a quarter at 100 yds. With the stuff the rifle didn't like it would take a playing card to cover the group. I never had any stringing effect as the barrel heated up which I did get with my M1A until I shimmed the gas block. Every rifle is a different story as is the person behind it though. You can try letting the barrel cool but without a consistent way to check the temp I don't know what that would tell you. There are companies that make bore cooling fans for range use but I don't think they are worth much unless you are really doing some volume range work. With the current batch of budget polymer stock rifles on the market, I'd check to see if you have enough flex in the forearm of the stock to touch the barrel while resting it your shooting position. I noticed this was a problem with my Ruger and using the Ruger bipods that attached to the front sling swivel lug, so I swapped out the stock for a Boyd laminate.
This post was edited on 2/22/19 at 7:44 pm
Posted by LEASTBAY
Member since Aug 2007
16498 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 7:45 pm to
Fusion. I shoot 7mm-08 also.
Posted by Ol boy
Member since Oct 2018
4137 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 8:23 pm to
Every gun is different. Factory sporter barrels will react to heat sometimes and some are capable of 10 shot strings on target!! If your gun shoots the fusions dead on first shot every time then opens up I would take that over some of the others listed based on my personal experience with how fusions do on game.
When you say better how big a group you talking about 1in at 100 yards or 3in at 100yds ?
Posted by Tigerhead
Member since Aug 2004
1176 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 8:28 pm to
Check the barrel to stock clearance by seeing if you can run a dollar bill from the end of the forearm to the action. If you can, then I would consider that as being free floating. As the previous poster said, you shouldn't get a lot of variation from the barrel heating up if it is free floated.

Next I would fire a five shot group with each ammo. I would still give it a few minutes between shots, just so you don't get it smoking hot.

I would also let it cool down completely before firing the the next 5 shot group. Pick the best group, maybe allowing for 1 flyer in each group and go with that. It's not like he will be shooting competitively. No bullseye on a deer.
Posted by LSU Neil
Springfield
Member since Feb 2007
3505 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 8:31 pm to
Every gun is definitely different. My 30.06 Ruger shot a bullet particularly well, and they quit making it 10 years ago. Since that time, I’ve gone through hell trying to get the gun to group right. I finally had hand loads made with the same bullet and casing, and gun is back. I’m back to getting 1/4-1/2 groups (holes inside of holes) at 100 yards (sled)
So keep trying, and find the right fit. Use a sled to eliminate any human error best you can. Make damn sure scope rings are tight etc.
I would use a good bore solvent and cleaner before anything else and start from scratch.
Posted by LSUA 75
Colfax,La.
Member since Jan 2019
4856 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 9:49 pm to
I hav e 4 rifles and they all shoot Coreloks very well.When I bought my A bolt .270 I tried 9 different brands and types of ammo and I got best groups with Core-loks(1 in.)My A bolt 7mm mag.shoots Federal premiums best,Core-loks 11/2 in.I have come to believe that the first shot out of cold barrel is most important for hunting.I don’t do long range shooting,though.Longest shot on deer has been 250 yards,I once knocked down boar hog at 500 yards with my 7 mag.
Posted by Tigerhead
Member since Aug 2004
1176 posts
Posted on 2/22/19 at 9:58 pm to
quote:

I have come to believe that the first shot out of cold barrel is most important for hunting


No doubt in my mind. I might use a lead sled to test ammo, but not to zero my rifle for hunting. I want a hand held, cold barrel shot. And I don't clean or oil the bore again until hunting season is over.
Posted by mfiredog
Stonewall
Member since Oct 2016
725 posts
Posted on 2/23/19 at 9:19 am to
All solid advice, my only point is to “season” the barrel”. Shoot it clean it shoot it clean it. Do this for a box or so, I’ve always had some increase in consistency after doing this. Good luck
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
7547 posts
Posted on 2/23/19 at 10:29 am to
LSUDAN1,
Congrats on your new gun. I"m kinda partial to the 7-08 as I really like it. I think you'll be very pleased w/ it. You pose a good question, but be prepared for a bunch of different answers as nearly every shooter does it differently. In the end, you'll need decide how you want to do it. Having said that, I'll share w/ you what I do.

1. In a hunting rifle, the cold represents probably the only shot you'll be taking in a real hunting situation. Consequently, I don't discard it.
2. I don't let the barrel cool between shots of the same load. If shooting more than a couple different loads, I'll let the barrel cool some between the different loads.
3. I shoot 3 shot groups. I handload all my ammo. I quit shooting 5 shot groups 25 years ago when primers became nearly impossible to find.
4. When looking for the most accurate ammo, I shoot off a bipod or sand bags. When signing in for a hunt, I use the same rest I'll be using in the field.
5. I shoot at 100 yards. If competition between rounds is close at 100 yards, I'll also test at 200 yards.
7. I agree most guns shoot better w/ a barrel that's free floated. OTOH, sometimes you'll find one that does better w/ a pressure point at the tip of the forend. I you want to test for that, shoot w/ and w/o a folded up business card at the tip of the forend.

How big are the groups your gun's currently shooting? Depending on how well your son handles the full power loads, I'd think about also trying some reduced recoil loads.
Posted by rodnreel
South La.
Member since Apr 2011
1532 posts
Posted on 2/23/19 at 2:25 pm to
The way I was taught years ago is to begin with a clean barrel that is close to sighted in. Set up a rock solid shooting platform and a target 100 yds. apart. Load up any brand of ammo and fire the first shot but not at the bulls-eye of the target. My instructor called this a flyer and it is always the first shot after a clean barrel and it doesn't count.

Load up ammo no. 1 and shoot for a three shot grouping waiting about a minute between rounds. Don't worry about adjusting the scope to the bulls eye. What you are hoping for is a close grouping near the bulls-eye. Mark holes or load up another target. Wait at least 5 minutes then load up ammo no. 2 and repeat then again with ammo 3. If one of the three shots doesn't group well shoot a fourth.

After shooting ammo 3 you would have shot between 10 and 13 rounds. Clean the barrel and fire a flyer. Repeat if you have additional brands of ammo. Once you pick the right ammo now adjust the scope to the bulls-eye.

I have tried at least 10 different brands of ammo and my 7-08 likes Double Tap DT Hunter with 140gr. Barnes TTSX bullets.
This post was edited on 2/23/19 at 8:27 pm
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