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re: Pistol or shotgun - home protection
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:52 am to captdalton
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:52 am to captdalton
quote:
Are you saying the average shooter is more accurate with a handgun than a shotgun?
No. There's more to consider than that though. How will you store it? Can everyone else in the house use it? Can you operate it effectively under maximum stress? The whole manual of operation is just so much more complicated than an AR after the first shot that it generally doesn't make sense to purchase a shotgun as your dedicated home defense weapon. Its not that its a bad choice, its just that an AR is better.
The pistol is good at being portable and easily stored and accessible. Obviously if I KNOW im going fight someone and I get to choose my weapon, im probably not picking a pistol.
1
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:54 am to lsufan1971
The link I posted showed the same thing for 55 grain FMJ. They penetrated a 12” gel block and then through the house, which in his test was a simulated interior wall with two layers of drywall and an exterior wall with drywall and plywood. And I have personally shot a 55 grain FMJ through the top of the house. Bullet type has a huge impact on penetration. I bet a 50 grain ballistic tip would be a pretty good option.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:55 am to captdalton
quote:
Are you saying the average shooter is more accurate with a handgun than a shotgun? Have you seen people shoot?
I’m a pretty experienced shooter of all (pistol, long guns) and I would much rather shoot a man sized target with a long gun than a pistol at 50-75yd and feel I am more accurate with one.
I have watched people miss wild hogs deer and rabbits at 5-20yds clean miss with a shotgun. And i believe that a lot of those misses while sometimes can be attributed to poor shooters can be attributed to the fact that shotguns do not offer much more margin of error in aiming than a rifle does at close range. To many people not saying your one offer up a shotgun as a preference due to the perception that “all you have to do is point it in tbeir direction and you will hit them”
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:04 am to lsufan1971
As stated earlier, drywall is not stopping anything that will be effective at stopping a person.
If there are penetration concerns and you cant address them, a shotgun and fine shot is your only option. That's the only thing that has a chance to both stop the threat rapidly and not be 100% lethal through a typical interior wall.
If there are penetration concerns and you cant address them, a shotgun and fine shot is your only option. That's the only thing that has a chance to both stop the threat rapidly and not be 100% lethal through a typical interior wall.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:12 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
The whole manual of operation is just so much more complicated than an AR after the first shot that it generally doesn't make sense to purchase a shotgun as your dedicated home defense weapon. Its not that its a bad choice, its just that an AR is better.
You are saying a pump shotgun is harder to use and less intuitive to use than an AR?
From first hand experience working ranges and various shoots I can tell you that is completely backwards.
I have very rarely ever seen anyone, including first time shooters, have problems operating a 20 gauge pump shotgun after being shown how to operate it.
On the other hand, even after you show them how, many first time shooters absolutely can not load a mag into an AR, release the bolt, and shift the safety to fire. They can not take an unloaded AR and make it go bang.
Even if you carefully hand them a loaded rifle with a round chambered, it is about 50-50 whether they will flip the safety off or hit the mag release and drop the mag at their feet.
From real world experience here is the ease of use for new/inexperienced shooters.
Single shot breakbarrel > Revolver (NOT SA cowboy) > pump shotgun > semi auto shotgun > pistol > AR
You may think an AR is intuitive because you are familiar with one. But hand one to someone who has never handled one and see what happens.
Those same people usually think that when you remove the magazine the gun is unloaded. A lot of accidental shootings have occurred with just such “unloaded” guns. For someone who is unfamiliar with guns and doesn’t seem to want to become familiar, I would never recommend anything with a detachable magazine.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:19 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
As stated earlier, drywall is not stopping anything that will be effective at stopping a person.
If you click on that link that I provided, or any of a number of similar tests, it shows there are a number of options that will penetrate 10-12” of ballistic gel but not still pass through 2 sheets of drywall.
Here is an interesting site when considering defensive rounds for your pistol.
Lucky Gunner Ballistic Comparisons
So there are absolutely options that will stop a person but not continue all the way through the house.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:30 am to Ol boy
quote:
To many people not saying your one offer up a shotgun as a preference due to the perception that “all you have to do is point it in tbeir direction and you will hit them”
A tactical shotgun has multiple points of contact; grip, stock, and fore-end; while a handgun only has one, the grip.
People are just more accurate the more stable they can hold the gun. A stock is one way to increase this. Just like shooting from a rest is.
A shotgun is more accurate than a pistol because of the stock, not because it is a shotgun. Most people struggle with a TAC-14 or shockwave. Hand them the same action with a brace, and they will be much better. Hand them the same gun with a stock and 26” barrel and tell them to rest it on a bench and they will be even more accurate. It is the main reason for the fight over AR pistol braces. Being able to place a gun up against the shoulder makes it easier to shoot accurately.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:38 am to captdalton
quote:
You are saying a pump shotgun is harder to use and less intuitive to use than an AR?
Yes. Vastly more difficult. I've never seen anyone short shuck an AR. Ive seen countless experienced hunters short shuck a pump. I've taught a few women how to shoot and they all prefer to use an AR to anything else, and dislike pump shotguns the most. They'll pick anything else to shoot.
A semi auto shotgun is equal to an AR in terms of manual of operation if you dont care about running out of ammo. With a defensive shotgun, you really need to be loading it if you are shooting it. There's the weight and the recoil to deal with. Even tactical low recoil buckshot has some recoil and reduces reliabilty. Few people are willing to spend what a premium self defense style semi auto costs for such a limited use weapon.
Again, id rather be clearing my house with a shotgun than a pistol, but id vastly prefer an AR to either of those. An AR is just better by every metric there is unless you need non-lethal or breaching, which to me is irrelevant.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 12:47 pm to xBirdx
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:17 pm to Ol boy
quote:
rather shoot a man sized target with a long gun than a pistol at 50-75yd
Jesus Christ, man, we are talking about home defense. How big is your fricking house?!?
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:24 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Your experience is vastly different than mine. In my twenty years of selling firearms, and working with thousands if not tens of thousands of all skill levels, ARs and similar magazine fed semi-automatic rifles are the most difficult for new/first time shooters to learn to operate. And magazine fed weapons of any type are most likely to go bang when they are “unloaded”.
I can not agree with you that an AR is easier to use than a pump shotgun. Everything I have seen tells me otherwise. And you obviously don’t agree with me. So we will have to agree to disagree.
For new/inexperienced shooters or weapons that a new/inexperienced shooter may use, I will continue to recommend a 20 gauge tactical pump shotgun for home defense and a .38 revolver w/reduced recoil ammunition and a decent holster for a carry/purse gun.
The fact is a lot of very experienced shooters don’t really know how they will react in a stressful life or death situation. Even for the most experienced shooter simpler may be better in a crisis situation.
I can not agree with you that an AR is easier to use than a pump shotgun. Everything I have seen tells me otherwise. And you obviously don’t agree with me. So we will have to agree to disagree.
For new/inexperienced shooters or weapons that a new/inexperienced shooter may use, I will continue to recommend a 20 gauge tactical pump shotgun for home defense and a .38 revolver w/reduced recoil ammunition and a decent holster for a carry/purse gun.
The fact is a lot of very experienced shooters don’t really know how they will react in a stressful life or death situation. Even for the most experienced shooter simpler may be better in a crisis situation.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:26 pm to Homey the Clown
quote:
rather shoot a man sized target with a long gun than a pistol at 50-75yd
I don’t know how the cops will view it, but it is true that if you pick them off at the mailbox they won’t ever become home invaders.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:27 pm to xBirdx
Pistol length suppressed .300blk ar with subs, red dot, and light
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:54 pm to Homey the Clown
quote:
Jesus Christ, man, we are talking about home defense. How big is your fricking house?!?
lol no. I’m just making statement that if I was going to pick which gun to shoot for accuracy I would pick a long gun.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:55 pm to captdalton
Just do like el seguendo does and get crosshairs on everybody who dares set foot or tire on your property.
Posted on 5/22/25 at 2:00 pm to captdalton
quote:
I don’t know how the cops will view it, but it is true that if you pick them off at the mailbox they won’t ever become home invaders.
some ole boy walking the neighborhood handing out flyers for his kids lost dog, he gets to your driveway and catches a .556 to the dome. Sorry officer, he looked like a threat to my family and myself. I had to neutralize the threat to protect my family
Posted on 5/22/25 at 2:01 pm to Ol boy
quote:
lol no. I’m just making statement that if I was going to pick which gun to shoot for accuracy I would pick a long gun.
I was just messing with ya
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:12 pm to biglego
quote:I will never own a biometric gunsafe, especially one for something I would use in self-defense. Ever.
Agree with all this. Pistol safes are so cheap and so easy, it’s mind boggling to me that not everyone uses one
I work in healthcare. We keep meds stored in a Pyxis, a fancy name for a medcart. It has a thumb scanner. I'm pretty sure it is WAY more expensive than any potential gun safe you may buy.
Over the years, I've seen the fingerprint scanner fail about a dozen times. Usually if you reboot it (turn it off, weight for the system to kick back on), it will work. A couple times they had to get a tech out to fix one.
Next time you reboot your computer, or phone, imagine you need your gun at that exact moment-
and then count the seconds until it comes completely back online.
As for which gun, for me as I said, it's pistol. My house is old, and not an open floor layout. And I intentionally choose not to enable Alexa or whatever else to turn lights on or off.
At 4am when something goes bump, I can maneuver the hallway, open doors, flick light switches etc, and still keep my handgun in one-hand point mode. And I'm very comfortable with point-shoot accuracy within 7-10 meters to centermass, which is all the range I will be facing inside. Especially for 2-3 shots in a hurry as need be. I don't want optics or red dots, or lasers... I don't want to look at and chase a dot. I want to focus on the target, and I'm comfortable in my ability at that distance to point-shoot from different postures and positions.
Now, if something is tripping the alarm motion sensors and somebody is trying to force entry through a door or window, I have stuff readily at hand that can address that too.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 12:34 am to Scoob
I have one pistol safe that’s fingerprint and buttons. In the past four years it’s never failed. My other pistol safe is only buttons and it’s also never failed.
The real hazard is the battery will die. Reminds me, I need to check them.
The real hazard is the battery will die. Reminds me, I need to check them.
Posted on 5/23/25 at 12:35 pm to biglego
quote:It's never failed yet.
I have one pistol safe that’s fingerprint and buttons. In the past four years it’s never failed. My other pistol safe is only buttons and it’s also never failed
As I said, I have seen devices fail, devices that cost a ton and are actively serviced. My point of view is this- keep it simple. Remove failure potential from the equation, that way you don't have to worry about it.
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