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cave canem
Mississippi St. Fan
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
9066 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

They absolutely can. That’s the entire point. Tags enable the state to allow more harvest in some areas and reduce it in others. Wildlife officials have said the first thing they would do is give out more doe tags in pockets of the state where deer density is too high.


lol there is nothing stopping them from doing it now, in fact the state did that exact thing 30 years ago before the population got OOC, they would come do a survey and then issue tags based on the survey, in return you had to collect jaw bones for them.

The biggest issue is lack of hunter effort in many parts of the state and that is a tough nut to crack in today's legal climate. If you want better hunting opportunities then lobby for hold harmless laws for landowners, I would let lots of folks hunt our farm if I did not have to worry about getting sued over a splinter in their finger.

fricking shysters are the reason the whole state is posted now and the best thing we could do for our country is line them up for a hammer to the back of the head.

There is no such thing as magic bullets, both herd size and body/antler size is determined by nutrition far more so than by laws and tags cant change that.





TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

Did you know that LA guesses the number are off by 50%. So it's still a very large guess



As opposed to having no idea at all? Any sampling method is going to have to be adjusted based on an estimation of those not participating. It's the relative trends that matter and allow the biologists to make decisions. MS currently uses a survey system. They have zero confidence in that data, as evidenced by their recent changes to the zones and bag limits over the last four years.

quote:

I believe a very high percentage of tickets handed out from tagging system are more accidental/honest mistakes than "catching poachers"


Based on what? I'm honestly asking.

quote:

Very little has been accomplished and much of it is bad data and show me a government contract that is little cost.


I laid out why the cost would be minimal and why data is still useful even if not iron clad, but if you're of the mindset that anything the government will ever do is wrong then I'm not sure what to tell you. You're entitled to your opinion.

quote:

I don't enjoy the stress of "where are my tags" every 10 minutes. I tend to forget cell phone, forget wallet, forget something important. I don't like being made into a criminal because my tags fell out my bag or were forgotten with my wallet or washed in my clothes or ...

I have seen shows where people are ticked for taking a picture before applying a tag or ticketed for not having a pin on them to fill out the tag if they would have killed something.



Like I said, that's being set in your ways. Nothing wrong with it but call a spade a spade. Do you keep your license on you?

quote:

The bottom line is more bureaucracy with little to no tangible gain.


I just don't get this "don't tread on me" boogeyman argument. The gains are tangible and tagging systems have a long track record of success prettymuch everywhere in the country. It adds almost no cost to the hunter, takes a few minutes of your time, and gives the state at least a better picture of what's happening with the resource to ultimately increase hunter opportunity. If that's your definition of bureaucratic overreach then I don't know how you stand to live here.


TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

lol there is nothing stopping them from doing it now, in fact the state did that exact thing 30 years ago before the population got OOC, they would come do a survey and then issue tags based on the survey, in return you had to collect jaw bones for them.


I remember the early DMAP days. That's exactly what tagging would accomplish without having to send (read: pay) a biologist to every back 40 who wants a few more doe tags. They can look at the trends in the harvest data in real time, and issue more tags, over an app. MS has never been opposed to shooting does, they've been opposed to telling 20 counties at a time shoot every doe you see.

quote:

The biggest issue is lack of hunter effort in many parts of the state and that is a tough nut to crack in today's legal climate. If you want better hunting opportunities then lobby for hold harmless laws for landowners, I would let lots of folks hunt our farm if I did not have to worry about getting sued over a splinter in their finger.



No argument there, I just see tags as a way to enable people who are contributing more effort to be able to take more deer. Hunting for some has been reduced to a couple weekends a year when they get an invite. Others spend every weekend from Sept to Jan in the woods and could take 20 deer if allowed. Tags provide a framework to shift bag limits to others and allow that to happen if deemed necessary.


257WBY
Baylor Fan
Member since Feb 2014
1771 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
Mississippi, like every other state, has no clue what to do about CWD.
The proposed antler restrictions would allow a hunter to kill a mature buck that doesn’t fit current regulations.


TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
First off, MS antler restrictions aren't big enough to limit a mature deer from being killed. That's why it's either/or on beam length or spread. Only the most heavily managed draw-only WMAs have restrictions that protect any deer that's older than a 2.5 year old.

Second, I'm not necessarily opposed to a buck of choice policy, I'm opposed to an unchecked buck of choice policy. Without a way to account for it then every dumb spike that wanders up to the corn pile is fair game. You can't age meat in a freezer. As it sits currently there's at least the deterrent that a spike in the back of a truck or hanging is a ticket until it's in the freezer.


duckdude
Alabama Fan
Member since Apr 2016
202 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

As opposed to having no idea at all

Bad DATA is Bad DATA, there are others ways to get this info and I'm not opposed to them. As I mentioned the turkey program I fill in the info from every hunt and send it in at the end of the season.

quote:

Based on what? I'm honestly asking.

Just an observation from most game warden shows I have seen and some research on the internet from people being so mad over being ticketed from some dumb little thing like no pen to fill in the tag. I have no hard data though I would like to see the numbers and citations from several states, I would put money on a high percentage of tickets not being from intentionally not tagging or over the bag limit

quote:

I laid out why the cost would be minimal
you said the cost would be low, I don't believe the government can do anything at a low cost. I would much rather see money spent on more wardens

quote:

Do you keep your license on you?
I understand if I don't have my license I can be ticketed but I can easily show that I wasn't intentionally being an out-law. You step out of your truck and walk 10 feet into the woods with your tags in the truck you are an out-law and can't prove otherwise.

quote:

long track record of success pretty much everywhere

LoL at this really? show me where LA's hunting has improved since tagging has been implemented?


cave canem
Mississippi St. Fan
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
9066 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

Only the most heavily managed draw-only WMAs have restrictions that protect any deer that's older than a 2.5 year old.


Seems I get where we are different here, I view this as a private property issue and have never set foot on a WMA for hunting while you are viewing this as a public lands issue.

The management of the two has needed splitting for a long time but this will never happen.

I promise you the vast majority of the state is managed much more intensively than WMA's and state law requires and shooting a "legal" buck will get you uninvited most places with a quickness.


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AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
62758 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

Private Land Only

Allow one of three-buck bag limit to be any antlered deer.

They have been able to shoot spikes on Palmyra for a couple of seasons now. I have no idea how this all works.


TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

Seems I get where we are different here, I view this as a private property issue and have never set foot on a WMA for hunting while you are viewing this as a public lands issue.

The management of the two has needed splitting for a long time but this will never happen.

I promise you the vast majority of the state is managed much more intensively than WMA's and state law requires and shooting a "legal" buck will get you uninvited most places with a quickness.




Exactly the opposite. I occasionally hunt public but for the vast majority of my life have been a private land hunter, including some very well managed places in the delta. I see it as the private landowners paying for the issues public land is faced with. In a single weekend last year in Natchez I counted over 80 does in broad daylight. In the same zone I can go sit for a week and not see a deer.

Without a way to monitor populations and harvest, the state really has no choice but to shoehorn everyone into one-size-fits-all bag limits, seasons, and antler restrictions that cover huge areas of the state that may have nothing in common from a management perspective. I have seen and am not arguing that there are areas of the state that could sustain twice or three times the harvest rate that's currently legal. I see tagging as a way to confidently allow the state to do that, and they've gone on record multiple times to say that's what they want.


TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

They have been able to shoot spikes on Palmyra for a couple of seasons now. I have no idea how this all works.




A place like that can likely swing getting MDWF biologists involved with their management plan, same as the DMAP programs years ago. They may have some handshake deal in place. I'm just speculating, but letter of the law for that zone is only youth can shoot spikes whether public or private.


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yatesdog38
Mississippi St. Fan
in your head rent free
Member since Sep 2013
5681 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
bro... its old people doing old people things. tag won't catch on here, hell there are still dry counties in the state. People over 55 in mississippi are lazy AF and don't give a rats arse about keeping with the technology and they don't believe any kind of new information is beneficial. lost cause bro


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tenfoe
Member since Jun 2011
5119 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

Bad DATA is Bad DATA


Exactly. State government data collection in regard to wildlife is comically terrible in every instance. For example, in Louisiana, last year's turkey poult survey indicated a very poor hatch. This spring's counts indicated nearly record-high observations of jake (1yr old male) turkeys in the same areas. Now, one set of data is wrong. Which one? Who knows. As with anything the real answer is likely somewhere in the middle. I don't envy the job of the state boys trying to come up with regulations to please the masses and protect the resources, but making policy based on shitty data is shitty policy.


TheDrunkenTigah
Syracuse Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
15026 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
quote:

I don't envy the job of the state boys trying to come up with regulations to please the masses and protect the resources, but making policy based on shitty data is shitty policy.


They're currently making policy off of shitty data. They take a 6% survey and flip a coin on bag limits. Of course a tagging system is going to fail if people don't buy in or it's not enforced, like anything else. Tagging systems in other states have increased the confidence in the data to the point that even a state like Kansas is divided into 19 units each with their own individual harvest quotas. The hunters there have embraced the system and it's working for them.


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Bigbee Hills
Mississippi St. Fan
The Tombigbee Hills
Member since Feb 2019
458 posts

re: Mississippi Proposed 2019-20 Deer Regulations
I smell what you're stepping in brother. I hate the government as much as anybody, but one place where I could be considered somewhat liberal is in wildlife conservation. History has shown that government "intrusion" to force conservation of the wild places and wild things within is usually a sound method. Dare I say that the only government agencies that I have a level of tentative, albeit careful, support for are the ones who deal with conservation of wildlife, fisheries, and public land and waters. Without careful management of those things, my world as I know it, view it and love it, would come crashing down.

The 2nd reply to your question answered it pretty well. A simple Google search will tell you all you need to know about the positive effects of a tagging system, and to be objective, it'll also tell you of the negative outcomes.

Just like the turkey tagging check in system, it's a valuable tool that biologists need to manage wildlife that I dearly love. Anything that helps me in my pursuit of wildlife- and that stops poachers in theirs- I am all for. (I hate calling poachers "outlaws." To me it gives the connotation that a poacher is in some way less of a piece of chit and less of a thief than what he truly is.)

I personally do not think proven wildlife conservation methods warrant a debate on government intrusion. It is not the time nor the place for putting that kind of energy into it, and particularly because, as it stands, it's a state's rights issue- as it should be.

If the federal government decided to pass a nationwide tagging system then I'd flip out, but until then, I'm all for Mississippi having it. Oftentimes we are behind on so many of the good things, and ahead of the pack on the antiquated, archaic ones, and a tagging system is a fine example of that truth. A tagging system in a state that was obviously seeing major changes in its deer herd before CWD came on the scene (or before we knew about it), coupled with questionable-to-me management practices to mitigate for it, means that a tagging system, now more than ever, is warranted in its implementation.

We've got to get a handle on our herd to discover what's going on right now and where we're headed; a tagging system, far as we know it, is the only way to give us the hard data that we need to do that.

Collecting data on something located out in the wilds, across millions of acres of land and in secret secluded areas by thousands of people is inherently impossible to do with any amount of accuracy without the forced cooperation of those who are out in the sticks doing it. There is no other way- not in terms of accuracy- or not right now. The poachers will hate it, the common sportsman will, at some point or on some hunt, find it to be an inconvenience, and some will even be ticketed when they had honest intentions, but the greater good will have of been done.

Me? I'll make that sacrifice to ensure that my son will have a chance to see the beauty and wonderment of a monarch as he cruises through a swamp thicket and disappears into the darkness leaving only the sound of falling sleet behind. That is why we do these things: for the good of the prey, that is the whitetail buck and his doe, and for me, his predator- albeit his adoring predator.


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