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Message
re: Lets have a best side arm contest.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:35 pm to bbvdd
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:35 pm to bbvdd
Idk what else to point to but I have never seen a 45 have less muzzle flip than a 9mm. Like this articles says this is probably the most apples to apples comparison you will find
Recoil slomo comparison
Recoil slomo comparison
1
Posted on 6/6/17 at 11:12 pm to Timmayy
Posted on 6/6/17 at 11:28 pm to Bleeding purple
Yeah that's a pretty good scientific method compare five or six entirely different gun platforms and see how they compare. Now the variable is not only whic round recoils less but also which platform handles it the best. Put two exactly similar 1911 models one being 45 and one being 9. At least that tries to validate just one variable. Or two exact glocks or two exact Khars.
Oh wait my video did that...
Oh wait my video did that...
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 6/7/17 at 12:12 am to bbvdd
As a P226 owner, I have to cast my vote for it.
Would also nominate the Beretta PX4. If I had to only pick one it'd be the P226, but the PX4 has been a fine handgun as well.
Would also nominate the Beretta PX4. If I had to only pick one it'd be the P226, but the PX4 has been a fine handgun as well.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 6:15 am to Timmayy
quote:
five or six entirely different gun platforms
Which was the point of this thread.
Which you were arguing against the 1911 because it is "exteremly accurate slow plinking gun" compared to a glock 17.
Which you based soley on the pressure and energy of 9mm vs .45 ammo. Ironically, in argument to a video I linked stating preference to a 1911 chambered in 9mm over a glock 17 due to accuracy in certain situations.
To which you claimed a .45 (1911) shooter would shoot better with a 9mm (non 1911 like a glock) and vice versa, in retort to my claim that there are many shooters who can place 7 rounds from a .45 1911 on target quicker or as quickly as shooters with other non 1911 9mm platforms.
Then I post a link showing exactly that. The lower effective recoil and muzzle rise between individual shots of a .45 1911 vs a 9mm Glock 17. And still you argue.
Lmbo.
This post was edited on 6/7/17 at 6:22 am
Posted on 6/7/17 at 8:17 am to Bleeding purple
Fired from identical platforms, there should be no question the 45 recoils more than a 9mm. Anyone that has shot a 9mm govt size 1911 can tell you it feels like shooting a 22LR. I have a G34 and G41 which is about to as close as you can get to being similar in the glock world and there isn't a load I have come up with yet for the G41 that will recoil less than the G34 and function reliably.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 10:01 am to ODP
quote:
Fired from identical platforms, there should be no question the 45 recoils more than a 9mm
completely agree
That is just not what we are debating.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 10:06 am to bbvdd
Shoot/carry what you like, this is the one for me.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 10:26 am to Bleeding purple
This all started from my opinion that a 45 1911 was not the best self defense choice because of a few reason. Capacity size weight, reliability and then it turned into a debate of 45 vs 9mm
I did not intend to try and compare the 45 1911 versus a polymer full sized pistol in terms of recoil. And my statement of 9mm glock vs 1911 (.45) shooter was obviously too hasty as I did not actually go and find legitimate facts to that. You got me there.
What I did intend to do was somehow squash this notion that a 45 with all other factors equal recoils less than a 9mm.
I also point out that shootability and speed of 9mm is superior to that of the 45. What I failed to clarify is that I believe this to be the case when talking of equal platforms. Not intending to try to compare singularly the 1911 45 to a glock 19 but more along the lines of 9mm vs 45 1911. Or 9mm vs 45 glock.
The reason for the confusion is during the 9 vs 45 debate platform was not a part of my debate and I did not make it clear I was not trying to compare the recoil of a 45 1911 to a glock 19
To compare the .45 1911 to the glock 19 or similar weapon goes back to my original statement. Of why I believe the .45 to not be the best personal defense weapon capacity size weight and reliability and recoil. The negatives of the .45 caliber limiting capacity and increasing recoil inherent of the round itself, while still possibly being less in a 1911 than a glock 19, do not outweigh the advantages gained. I should have then gone on to clarify that I believe a reliable 9mm 1911 is a better choice as a self defense weapon than a .45 1911 because of the increased capacity and inherently lower recoil but that I believe still the 9mm 1911 faults to the glock 19s and comparable pistols, for the vast weight savings and the increased capacity gained.
You can see how all of the debates are entwined with each other and were confused with each other. The debate between 45 vs 9mm and 1911 vs polymer double stacks should have been kept separate.
And to go back to the 45 filling a fun range gun and showpiece and competition piece is because of the sole legacy of a colt 45. It's a gun everyone should own because they are great guns. Do I believe a 9mm 1911 is a better gun. Practically yes but that's not what I want as a range gun, showgun, and competition piece solely because of the nostalgia. None of those activites do I depend my life on the gun. But for reasons you and I have stated they are some of the most accurate and fun to shoot guns and great to own.
I did not intend to try and compare the 45 1911 versus a polymer full sized pistol in terms of recoil. And my statement of 9mm glock vs 1911 (.45) shooter was obviously too hasty as I did not actually go and find legitimate facts to that. You got me there.
What I did intend to do was somehow squash this notion that a 45 with all other factors equal recoils less than a 9mm.
I also point out that shootability and speed of 9mm is superior to that of the 45. What I failed to clarify is that I believe this to be the case when talking of equal platforms. Not intending to try to compare singularly the 1911 45 to a glock 19 but more along the lines of 9mm vs 45 1911. Or 9mm vs 45 glock.
The reason for the confusion is during the 9 vs 45 debate platform was not a part of my debate and I did not make it clear I was not trying to compare the recoil of a 45 1911 to a glock 19
To compare the .45 1911 to the glock 19 or similar weapon goes back to my original statement. Of why I believe the .45 to not be the best personal defense weapon capacity size weight and reliability and recoil. The negatives of the .45 caliber limiting capacity and increasing recoil inherent of the round itself, while still possibly being less in a 1911 than a glock 19, do not outweigh the advantages gained. I should have then gone on to clarify that I believe a reliable 9mm 1911 is a better choice as a self defense weapon than a .45 1911 because of the increased capacity and inherently lower recoil but that I believe still the 9mm 1911 faults to the glock 19s and comparable pistols, for the vast weight savings and the increased capacity gained.
You can see how all of the debates are entwined with each other and were confused with each other. The debate between 45 vs 9mm and 1911 vs polymer double stacks should have been kept separate.
And to go back to the 45 filling a fun range gun and showpiece and competition piece is because of the sole legacy of a colt 45. It's a gun everyone should own because they are great guns. Do I believe a 9mm 1911 is a better gun. Practically yes but that's not what I want as a range gun, showgun, and competition piece solely because of the nostalgia. None of those activites do I depend my life on the gun. But for reasons you and I have stated they are some of the most accurate and fun to shoot guns and great to own.
This post was edited on 6/7/17 at 11:18 am
Posted on 6/7/17 at 10:35 am to Timmayy
My reasoning is a series of checklists.
9mm vs 45. 9mm pros of recoil and capacity outweigh the terminal ballistics advantage of a 45 so 9mm wins
This decision takes off the .45 1911. But would still leave a 9mm 1911 in the running
Next decision 9mm 1911 versus similarly sized glock, say glock 19 or glock 17. (Or anybther reliable striker fired polymer handgun). The capacity to size ratio of the 9mm compared to the double stack polymers is such a gap that that alone would put it out of the running. But to go further the weight of the 9mm 1911 would go on to put it out of the running for carrying every day. Which brings to the final issue of reliability. And many will argue this but through personal experience they require too much upkeep for me to consider them reliable enough to trust with my life.
Final decision 9mm polymer striker fired handgun in sizing of your liking
9mm vs 45. 9mm pros of recoil and capacity outweigh the terminal ballistics advantage of a 45 so 9mm wins
This decision takes off the .45 1911. But would still leave a 9mm 1911 in the running
Next decision 9mm 1911 versus similarly sized glock, say glock 19 or glock 17. (Or anybther reliable striker fired polymer handgun). The capacity to size ratio of the 9mm compared to the double stack polymers is such a gap that that alone would put it out of the running. But to go further the weight of the 9mm 1911 would go on to put it out of the running for carrying every day. Which brings to the final issue of reliability. And many will argue this but through personal experience they require too much upkeep for me to consider them reliable enough to trust with my life.
Final decision 9mm polymer striker fired handgun in sizing of your liking
Posted on 6/7/17 at 10:41 am to bbvdd
Add CZ 97 to your list.
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