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Started By
Message
Judge ammo help
Posted on 9/24/14 at 9:11 am
Posted on 9/24/14 at 9:11 am
So my mom decided she wanted a handgun. Step dad went ahead and bought the Judge because it shoots a shotgun shell.
I tried to get her a full sized modern caliber but it is already too late. What are some rounds that would be decent out of it? Corbon 45LC +P stuff? Use the .410 in defense round?
1st round .410 defense round with rest of them with 45LC +P?
Before Bapple posts his videos, she already bought the gun. So no handguns for womenz video for me.
Post your video if you like, Bapple....I guess if you have to.
eta: Bapples Womenz firearms
I tried to get her a full sized modern caliber but it is already too late. What are some rounds that would be decent out of it? Corbon 45LC +P stuff? Use the .410 in defense round?
1st round .410 defense round with rest of them with 45LC +P?
Before Bapple posts his videos, she already bought the gun. So no handguns for womenz video for me.
Post your video if you like, Bapple....I guess if you have to.
eta: Bapples Womenz firearms
This post was edited on 9/24/14 at 9:17 am
Posted on 9/24/14 at 9:22 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
Did some testing a while back with a friend's judge and the federal 000 Buck had the best groupings. I'm sure .45 Colt ammo would get the job done but I don't think the +p ammo is a good idea for a female shooter.
This post was edited on 9/24/14 at 9:22 am
Posted on 9/24/14 at 9:24 am to 03GeeTee
quote:
best groupings
While grouping is important. If it can't penetrate, then what happens when somebody needs lethality.
PS: I just looked up the ammo you mentioned. It says 1200fps. So if it is spread evenly throughout the pellets, does each one have enough energy to penetrate?
This post was edited on 9/24/14 at 9:30 am
Posted on 9/24/14 at 9:30 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
When we tested it at 15-20 feet all 4 pellets of the federal 000 buck easily went through a 5/8" plywood sheet as well as an old wooden door we had behind the plywood.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 12:09 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
1st round .410 defense round with rest of them with 45LC +P?
If forced to use the Judge foe self defense, this is what I'd do. I don't feel real strong about it so I'd be open to the debate. Yes, the 45LC +P is going to recoil, but w/ the Judge, any load worthy of using for self defense is going to have significant recoil. If using a shot shell load for self defense, I'd shoot it beforehand to be sure it patterns adequately. I'd shoot the conventional rounds first as well at the Judge is known for poor accuracy w/ conventional rounds.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 12:35 pm to 03GeeTee
quote:
federal 000 Buck had the best groupings
Correct 25 yards and in, all 4 pellets will be in a group about the size of a baseball or smaller.
Bird shot goes everywhere... not good out of the judge.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 12:38 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Step dad went ahead and bought the Judge because it shoots a shotgun shell
What's wrong with that?
Judge haters are almost as bad as caliber arguers
Posted on 9/24/14 at 1:13 pm to Boats n Hose
master judge haters caliber arguers checking in
Yes, OP.. the judge is a terrible choice. She needs a GLOCK, GLOCKs are great guns for women. The new GLOCK .380 would be great for her..
Yes, OP.. the judge is a terrible choice. She needs a GLOCK, GLOCKs are great guns for women. The new GLOCK .380 would be great for her..
Posted on 9/24/14 at 2:16 pm to aVatiger
I don't feel confident that was a real post...
Posted on 9/24/14 at 2:26 pm to Boats n Hose
quote:
What's wrong with that?
I just think there are better options. That's all. If the reason was to get a SD weapon was because of the .410, I believe it needs more barrel to get proper velocity. I went to a website that showed that most didn't even penetrate to 10 inches in ballistics gel. The average for the load is only like 3-4". If the reason was to get a 45 LC, why? Get a modern caliber or .357. I just see no reason for the Judge in SD. Great for snakes and stuff though.
This post was edited on 9/24/14 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 9/24/14 at 2:55 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:Ii agree. And I hate the Judge.
I just think there are better options.
Which model did she get -- the 2.5" barrel or the 3" barrel ?
Here's a test from the Box-of-Truth" using the 2.5" bbl.
LINK
They later did a second test with the 3" bbl. model. It did a lot better, but there's still a ton of difference between a Judge and a real shotgun. I think it be an OK "snake gun" to tote in the woods (but I'd still rather have a 9mm revolver, or a .38 SPL. revolver, loaded with CCI snakeshot for that application).
IIRC Tom Givens tested the Judge with pellets and with the .45LC. I'll try to find his review -- I know it was negative.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 3:13 pm to dawg23
quote:
the 2.5" barrel or the 3" barrel ?
Don't even know. She did say she liked shooting the 45LC and hated the .410
Posted on 9/24/14 at 4:11 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Before Bapple posts his videos, she already bought the gun. So no handguns for womenz video for me.
I agree the Judge is pretty bad for self defense. The short, rifled barrel makes the wad spin as it leaves the barrel, causing your pattern to go everywhere.
You will get "poor groupings" from 45 LC out of the judge since the bullet has to travel so far before it contacts the rifling. While it may not group well, it will do fine for self defense distances.
Before she shoots it and makes it a "used" gun, I would suggest selling it and getting something better. But you knew I was gonna say that anyway...
Posted on 9/24/14 at 4:48 pm to bapple
quote:
Before she shoots it and makes it a "used" gun,
Too late. She did say she wanted something else though. I'll talk her into something else. Maybe she will like my cz75.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 5:45 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
Hickok45 did a Judge ammo test video I believe
Posted on 9/24/14 at 5:51 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
.45lc is a very capable caliber. I would never feel under gunned with something loaded down with the old cowboy killer.
.410 Triple aught will work fine if the gun shoots it well.
.410 Triple aught will work fine if the gun shoots it well.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 6:11 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I got no beef with the 45 lc. 410 out of a 2.5 inch barrel is the issue.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 7:55 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
I found Givens' "take" on the Judge (from a few years ago) -- but it didn't say which barrel. He reported very poor accuracy using it with .45LC ammo.(see "bold" text below)
It could be that he happened to get a "bad one," that isn't representative of all Judges. But I do know that the man knows how to shoot.
"The first test we did with it was at 5 yards, and the diameter of the birdshot pattern was a little over 30 inches. Now what that means is, if you are my spouse, and you're standing a foot away from somebody trying to kill you, and I try to shoot him, I'm gonna shoot both of you. Now, that seems counterproductive to me... and that's at 15 feet -- not at 15 yards."
"We tried it with 45 colt pistol ammunition ... the rifling has to be shallow in order to shoot birdshot or buckshot even badly, much less well... I was getting groups at 7 yards that I expect an over-the-counter service pistol to deliver at 25 yards..."
".. shot a 1 liter plastic bottle of water with buckshot at 15 feet, and some of it didn't even go through the near side, much less through the bottle -- didn't even get into the bottle, much less through the bottle." ...
" ... it came up short in every thing we could think of to do with it..."
It could be that he happened to get a "bad one," that isn't representative of all Judges. But I do know that the man knows how to shoot.
"The first test we did with it was at 5 yards, and the diameter of the birdshot pattern was a little over 30 inches. Now what that means is, if you are my spouse, and you're standing a foot away from somebody trying to kill you, and I try to shoot him, I'm gonna shoot both of you. Now, that seems counterproductive to me... and that's at 15 feet -- not at 15 yards."
"We tried it with 45 colt pistol ammunition ... the rifling has to be shallow in order to shoot birdshot or buckshot even badly, much less well... I was getting groups at 7 yards that I expect an over-the-counter service pistol to deliver at 25 yards..."
".. shot a 1 liter plastic bottle of water with buckshot at 15 feet, and some of it didn't even go through the near side, much less through the bottle -- didn't even get into the bottle, much less through the bottle." ...
" ... it came up short in every thing we could think of to do with it..."
Posted on 9/24/14 at 8:06 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
I got no beef with the 45 lc. 410 out of a 2.5 inch barrel is the issue.
It's like Dawg said. The Judge does "everything" simply "ok," rather than doing one thing VERY well. It doesn't shoot 45LC worth a crap because not only is the rifling very far from the bullet itself, it is also shallow to not rip into the wad of a 410 shot.
Plus, like I said, the short barrel doesn't have as much to do with it as the rifled barrel does. IT spins the wad as it leaves the barrel, making your shot scatter everywhere.
But, if you're forced to use it, or she doesn't want anything else, I would load it with either Winchester PXD1 or some 45LC JHPs.
That CZ75 would sure be a nice pistol for her though. Has much more ammo, less felt recoil, better sights, a better grip, less weight out front, and has actual accuracy.
Posted on 9/24/14 at 8:39 pm to bapple
Seems like I remember my buddy's shooting .410 slugs better than anything else.
It'd be worth a try, even if she gets something else there's no reason you can't take the judge. It might not do anything worth a damn, but it is fun to shoot. It works well for shooting snakes and other general stuff.
It'd be worth a try, even if she gets something else there's no reason you can't take the judge. It might not do anything worth a damn, but it is fun to shoot. It works well for shooting snakes and other general stuff.
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