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Started By
Message
re: Is bowfishing hurting Louisiana’s redfish population? A salty debate endures.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 4:29 pm to sta4ever
Posted on 7/9/24 at 4:29 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Imagine if we could spotlight deer in helicopters at night, shooting anything that has 2 white eyes. That’s about what bow fishing is the equivalent to.
Spotlighting deer is nothing like bowfishing. People have the misconception that they freeze like a deer does with a light on it. That isn’t the case.
You’re also not shooting anything and everything you see.
1
Posted on 7/9/24 at 6:51 pm to Theduckhunter
You're wasting your breath, the majority of people on this board hate bowfishing and anytime someone brings up a different opinion, it gets slammed.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 9:44 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Imagine if we could spotlight deer in helicopters at night, shooting anything that has 2 white eyes. That’s about what bow fishing is the equivalent to.
Not even close to the same thing I’m about as anti bow fishing as it gets, but this claim is just ludicrous.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:15 am to redfish99
Talked recently with 4 people that went on bow charters after the limit changed.
Every charter had an under and over sized fish.
While pogie boats, bow fishing, fishing pressure in general are issues…. They are microscopic compared to habitat loss/ degradation.
Every charter had an under and over sized fish.
While pogie boats, bow fishing, fishing pressure in general are issues…. They are microscopic compared to habitat loss/ degradation.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 8:49 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:39 am to elprez00
I’m 100% on the pogie boats need to go train, but the two are not mutually exclusive. When you see these giant surface drive boats running all over creation at night with more lights than Tiger Stadium, don’t tell me that isn’t impacting the fishery. Comparing how many of these services there are versus total licenses is gaslighting by the few that are profiting from this practice. It’s more their nighttime pressure all over the marsh that’s the issue, as well as tearing up the already rapidly disappearing marsh.
About as sporting as spotlighting deer. Do away with it.
About as sporting as spotlighting deer. Do away with it.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:28 am to Theduckhunter
quote:
Sure, Bowfishing hurts the redfish population, but not as much as rod and reel fishing does.
It’s not so much about hurting the redfish population as it is about destroying the marsh. The argument that bowfishing doesn’t hurt the redfish population as much as pogie boats is a total red herring and doesn’t belong at the table. The number one issue redfish populations and ducks face is habitat loss. Bowfishing practices are absolutely awful for the long term health of the marsh and to argue any position to the contrary is absolutely ridiculous.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:33 am to bluemoons
I gave up duck hunting in the LA coastal marshes after bowfishing became popular in the area (Port Sulphur, Golden Meadow, Biloxi Marsh).
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:35 am to Icansee4miles
quote:
as well as tearing up the already rapidly disappearing marsh.
Not a geologist or hydrologist or a person with any specialized knowledge of what I am about to say. But, I cannot for the life of me think that airboats/surface drive flat boats bowfishing are doing any significant damage to the marsh in comparison to what is happening because we built levees. We are talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent in the grand scheme of things, if that.
quote:
It’s more their nighttime pressure all over the marsh that’s the issue
As opposed to day time pressure? Again, it has to be a drop in the bucket by comparison.
If you want to make the argument against bowfishing there are arguments to be made but I think these two are some of the weakest arguments I've seen.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:36 am to bluemoons
quote:
Bowfishing practices are absolutely awful for the long term health of the marsh and to argue any position to the contrary is absolutely ridiculous.
How so? Please explain. I am genuinely curious.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:54 am to rmc
The majority of bowfishermen fish with surface drives and many of those are running twins/triples. They drive repeated circles around shallow ponds, use the surface drives to make trenasses out of ditches to and from ponds, and destroy subaquatic vegetation. This significantly increases erosion and makes it very difficult for the marsh to keep healthy levels of SAV for ducks, fish, etc. It takes years to build 20 square feet of marsh and a surface drive used irresponsibly can destroy it in minutes.
If you fly a drone over the north side of Biloxi marsh, almost every single duck/redfish pond has twin surface drive prop scars. Keep in mind that this is also an area that is privately owned and gratuitously leased to the state, and Biloxi Marsh corp prohibits surface drive usage. The landowners are getting incredibly pissed off about property damage from bowfishermen and there is significant risk that the east side of the river will become just like the west side has become, i.e. "public" areas become off limits to recreational fishermen.
That opens up the access can of worms, but I promise you that the landowners don't give a damn about public access if they begin to feel like their property is being damaged by the public, which is already happening.
If you fly a drone over the north side of Biloxi marsh, almost every single duck/redfish pond has twin surface drive prop scars. Keep in mind that this is also an area that is privately owned and gratuitously leased to the state, and Biloxi Marsh corp prohibits surface drive usage. The landowners are getting incredibly pissed off about property damage from bowfishermen and there is significant risk that the east side of the river will become just like the west side has become, i.e. "public" areas become off limits to recreational fishermen.
That opens up the access can of worms, but I promise you that the landowners don't give a damn about public access if they begin to feel like their property is being damaged by the public, which is already happening.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:57 am to rmc
quote:
But, I cannot for the life of me think that airboats/surface drive flat boats bowfishing are doing any significant damage to the marsh in comparison to what is happening because we built levees.
This is whataboutism and totally irrelevant to the conversation at hand. It's the same as the "well why aren't we talking about pogie boats" argument. You mean to tell me surface drives don't damage the marsh to the same extent completely removing a sedimentary floodplain did? Pretty groundbreaking take there.
The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. The Louisiana marsh is in dire shape and at this point if you're not helping, you're hurting. When a problem has multiple causes, failing or refusing to address one cause is not an acceptable excuse to refuse to address a separate cause.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:35 am to Bawpaw
quote:
gave up duck hunting in the LA coastal marshes after bowfishing became popular in the area (Port Sulphur, Golden Meadow, Biloxi Marsh).
That’s not why duck hunting has gotten worse over there.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:23 pm to Theduckhunter
quote:. It’s why some areas are gated off now
gave up duck hunting in the LA coastal marshes after bowfishing became popular in the area (Port Sulphur, Golden Meadow, Biloxi Marsh). That’s not why duck hunting has gotten worse over there
Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:18 pm to choupiquesushi
I don’t really understand the marsh damage argument. And I think it’s because those that are making the argument don’t understand/have never been bowfishing.
I would venture to say at least 75% of the fish we shoot are in 12”-20” of water…the same depth most are caught in. Yes we can get closer to them but you aren’t going to be able to see them in the mud. You can’t see them in the marsh grass either so the idea is to stay off the edge of the grass 6’-8’ like a lot of outboards do. Now airboats can go just about anywhere they please but I can only think of 2 charters and have only ever seen one personal airboat rig. I’m in no way putting blame on airboats for the marsh damage mainly because I think the argument is ridiculous/ignorance but if it is in fact because of watercraft, we better shut down the swamp/marsh tours also….where does it end?
I would venture to say at least 75% of the fish we shoot are in 12”-20” of water…the same depth most are caught in. Yes we can get closer to them but you aren’t going to be able to see them in the mud. You can’t see them in the marsh grass either so the idea is to stay off the edge of the grass 6’-8’ like a lot of outboards do. Now airboats can go just about anywhere they please but I can only think of 2 charters and have only ever seen one personal airboat rig. I’m in no way putting blame on airboats for the marsh damage mainly because I think the argument is ridiculous/ignorance but if it is in fact because of watercraft, we better shut down the swamp/marsh tours also….where does it end?
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:27 pm to bluemoons
quote:
This is whataboutism and totally irrelevant to the conversation at hand. It's the same as the "well why aren't we talking about pogie boats" argument. You mean to tell me surface drives don't damage the marsh to the same extent completely removing a sedimentary floodplain did? Pretty groundbreaking take there.
I guess my point is this: it doesn’t matter. If you don’t knock the levees down, it simply will not matter. There is nothing we will do remotely significant enough to matter.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:40 pm to HogsWillRiseAgain
quote:
And I think it’s because those that are making the argument don’t understand/have never been bowfishing.
You mention that you don't understand that marsh damage argument, but don't really provide a reason why the argument is incorrect other than to assume (incorrectly) that people taking a contrary position don't understand or have never been bowfishing. I've been bowfishing dozens of times in my life and I'd put the amount of time that I've spent in the interior marsh on the east side of the river up there with anybody.
How are most redfish caught in 12" of water? Very few bay boats can access 12" of water and those that do are rarely motoring through that water. Surface drives are literally cutting scars in the mud an destroying SAV. During the summer, in the majority of the interior marsh, it used to be impossible to stay "off the edge of the grass 6'8'" because the grass covered entire ponds.
I have literally watched a dude with a bowfishing outfit decal on the side his boat force his way through a 6" deep ditch on the north side of Bayou Biloxi with a gator tail. He laid down at least 2 feet of marsh grass on either side of the ditch. Can you help me understand how things like that are somehow not detrimental to the marsh? I had surface drives for years, but you're living with your head in the sand if you can't acknowledge that the way a lot of people are using them now is extremely detrimental to the health of the marsh.
Regardless of your personal opinion, multiple major landowners are already meeting about this, which is a problem for everyone that values public access.
This is a pond on the north end of Biloxi Marsh. It took me less than a minute to find this on google earth. This area used to never be accessed by surface drives because it took awhile for bowfishermen to figure out they could hang bigger outboards in between twin surface drives to cover greater distances. Can you help me understand how this is not bad for the marsh?
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:41 pm to rmc
quote:
I guess my point is this: it doesn’t matter. If you don’t knock the levees down, it simply will not matter. There is nothing we will do remotely significant enough to matter.
This type of mentality is why Louisiana is so arse backwards in so many ways.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 5:16 pm to bluemoons
quote:
Can you help me understand how this is not bad for the marsh?
How is cutting a trail in the mud messing up the marsh?
My main experience has been watching the marsh on our lease disappear. Yes, we run surface drives for duck season, but the marsh is disappearing at the same rate in all areas, despite having areas that no one ever drives a surface drive. Additionally, it was starting to disappear before anybody even had surface drives. The biggest impact has been the saltwater intrusion and the increased tides because the levees haven’t been repaired. Between that, and hurricanes, surface drives are basically a drop in the bucket.
I know areas of marsh across the state are all different, but that’s been my experience. It may be different in other areas, and my question is a serious one. I may just be ignorant but I have a hard time seeing how cutting a trail in mud in the marsh is going to significantly impact anything. I do understand your point about opening up small cuts even more though.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 5:30 pm to No Colors
quote:
But the impact on inshore fish in the LA marsh is unknown. But it doesn't take a marine biologist to see a bunch of baby flounder floating behind a shrimp boat and know it's a problem.
Look at the creep surveys 1-2 years post major storms. You see the uptick in fish stocks due to lack of effort by the commercial guys.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 5:44 pm to Theduckhunter
Well for starters once you cut a trenasse you create a path for water to flow. In soft mud a few major tide cycles and you now have a 2’ deep ditch that will continue to scour the bottom and the banks. Pretty soon that ditch that was only wide enough for your boat is 15’ wide.
Airboats can also cause this with repeatedly taking the same track across the marsh. The vegetation doesn’t bounce back quickly in those environments. Marsh buggies are almost as good as an excavator. There was a guy working at LGS with me back in the 90s that was studying the effects of various machines on the marsh for his PhD. To watch the progression YOY was pretty impressive.
Airboats can also cause this with repeatedly taking the same track across the marsh. The vegetation doesn’t bounce back quickly in those environments. Marsh buggies are almost as good as an excavator. There was a guy working at LGS with me back in the 90s that was studying the effects of various machines on the marsh for his PhD. To watch the progression YOY was pretty impressive.
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