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Started By
Message
re: Help me build a 5.56
Posted on 8/10/18 at 5:21 pm to jdavid1
Posted on 8/10/18 at 5:21 pm to jdavid1
I agree with others that you can get a solid rifle without having to spend all $3k on the gun. If you get a quality optic as well, I'm sure it'll help if you plan to shoot distance.
As Prop mentioned, you never mentioned your intention with the rifle. That will be your main determinant for barrel length and choice of optic.
I can honestly say one thing I've liked the most in my rifles in the Cryptic bolt carrier group. It makes cleaning the BCG insanely easy. Is it more reliable than a standard BCG with no slick coating? Probably not. But it's certainly easier to clean. Here's my 5.56 carrier (after about 5k rounds) and my .308 carrier.
As for other parts, I think the most important for making the rifle fun and accurate is a good trigger. There is no reason to spend over a grand on a rifle and still have a heavy mil-spec trigger since there are a multitude of affordable options on the market.
But besides the BCG and triggers as my suggestions, every other base has been covered by others here.
Never used one of these before. Is it all it's hyped out to be? Never had an issue with my standard buffer and spring besides being a bit noisy on the cheek.
As Prop mentioned, you never mentioned your intention with the rifle. That will be your main determinant for barrel length and choice of optic.
I can honestly say one thing I've liked the most in my rifles in the Cryptic bolt carrier group. It makes cleaning the BCG insanely easy. Is it more reliable than a standard BCG with no slick coating? Probably not. But it's certainly easier to clean. Here's my 5.56 carrier (after about 5k rounds) and my .308 carrier.
As for other parts, I think the most important for making the rifle fun and accurate is a good trigger. There is no reason to spend over a grand on a rifle and still have a heavy mil-spec trigger since there are a multitude of affordable options on the market.
But besides the BCG and triggers as my suggestions, every other base has been covered by others here.
quote:
JP silent capture buffer system
Never used one of these before. Is it all it's hyped out to be? Never had an issue with my standard buffer and spring besides being a bit noisy on the cheek.
1
Posted on 8/10/18 at 6:55 pm to bapple
The jp captured springs are great at taking the noise out of the stock. But, if you shoot alllot, 2 or 3k rounds a year like allot of 3 gun, the springs will get weaker with age and have to be swapped out. When they start wearing out, accuracy will start falling off. As far as accuraccy, I have a 16 with a proof barrel, one with a stretch 16 barrel and one with a jp 18 inch super match barrel. The stretch 16 is the most accurate of them all and holds moa well past 600.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:47 pm to Bigsampson
Wait, a weak buffer spring will cause accuracy to drop off? I have quite a few things bouncing around in my head with that 
.
If they wear out quickly I’ll probably just stick with the tried and true original buffer and spring. The one in my 16” has probably seen 6-7 thousand rounds and is still smooth as butter.
. If they wear out quickly I’ll probably just stick with the tried and true original buffer and spring. The one in my 16” has probably seen 6-7 thousand rounds and is still smooth as butter.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 11:09 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
I see all these guys around here spending big money on fancy ARs with high end parts then shot XM193 or m855 out of it or worse Tula or Wolf steel case. Just don't be that guy.
Shooting out to 600 yards and I'm hitting 9 an 10 ring with a cheap home built sub $500 AR but I'm shooting quality ammo and while the guy next to me shooting Federal M855 out of his Noveske wonders why he is all over the target and can't do better than 3-4 MOA. If I was spending 3k on an AR I would probably spend $1k on the rifle, $1k on the optic, and $1k in ammo.
Shooting out to 600 yards and I'm hitting 9 an 10 ring with a cheap home built sub $500 AR but I'm shooting quality ammo and while the guy next to me shooting Federal M855 out of his Noveske wonders why he is all over the target and can't do better than 3-4 MOA. If I was spending 3k on an AR I would probably spend $1k on the rifle, $1k on the optic, and $1k in ammo.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:47 am to bapple
The issue w the weak springs is fairly well known in competition circles. It isn’t something that happens fast, over 2k to 3k rounds. You won’t feel any difference. The theory is that when the springs weaken the bolt lockup is not as consistent and causes minor variations in accuracy. You see the gun go from a consistant sub moa shooter over time, change the springs and it’s back on track. Some of the captured spring units even come with multiple springs with different ratings to tune the gun. It really isn’t an issue unless you shoot allot and stretch shots out there a bit.
I do agree 100% about the quality ammo comment. Makes a huge difference.
I do agree 100% about the quality ammo comment. Makes a huge difference.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 2:54 am
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:00 pm to Bigsampson
+1 to Deore as well. Sub-MOA out of military surplus ammo is a rarity.
So basically if you just learn to live with a standard buffer and spring you can avoid all of that? Doesn't seem like much of an endorsement for the JP unit, but maybe I'd just need to shoot one first to justify the cost.
quote:
Bigsampson
So basically if you just learn to live with a standard buffer and spring you can avoid all of that? Doesn't seem like much of an endorsement for the JP unit, but maybe I'd just need to shoot one first to justify the cost.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 2:32 pm to bapple
quote:
Wait, a weak buffer spring will cause accuracy to drop off?
The drive spring has nothing to do with accuracy in these rifles, anyone who tells you otherwise wants sell you a product banking on ignorance...
quote:
Sub-MOA out of military surplus ammo is a rarity.
Damn near impossible since the ammo itself is only 2-MOA spec'd. The military tests each lot with a specially instrumented test bench using a barrel that is over 2" in diameter and is machined to extremely precise standards, set into a test sled that eliminates any human error and minimizes mechanical variation.
I think it's funny that people will invest so much money into a rifle while military rifle matches have been won with so much less while demonstrating accuracy, consistency, and reliability that most people will never attain with all the billet parts in the world.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:04 pm to Clames
Sorry,
But you are wrong.
Up until last year, my 16 and 18 inch guns went through a thousand rounds every other month or so. Not sitting at a bench or blasting cans and bottles at the dump.
All dynamic shooting, lots up close and fast, but allot out to 500 yards and beyond.
With respect to the jp captured spring units it absolutely makes a difference. I have 3 competition guns w jp units in each. Two have fresh springs, one not so much. You can swap the units out, and without any other alteration and see differences in accuracy at 200 yards.
The jp captured spring unit has two main benefits. One is less noise coming from the stock and the other is convienence. I would not recommend one for a high power type competition gun or prs series gun. They are great for 3 gun and shooting to 600 yards or so.
But you are wrong.
Up until last year, my 16 and 18 inch guns went through a thousand rounds every other month or so. Not sitting at a bench or blasting cans and bottles at the dump.
All dynamic shooting, lots up close and fast, but allot out to 500 yards and beyond.
With respect to the jp captured spring units it absolutely makes a difference. I have 3 competition guns w jp units in each. Two have fresh springs, one not so much. You can swap the units out, and without any other alteration and see differences in accuracy at 200 yards.
The jp captured spring unit has two main benefits. One is less noise coming from the stock and the other is convienence. I would not recommend one for a high power type competition gun or prs series gun. They are great for 3 gun and shooting to 600 yards or so.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:22 pm to DeoreDX
quote:
while the guy next to me shooting Federal M855 out of his Noveske wonders why he is all over the target and can't do better than 3-4 MOA
He is a terrible shooter. Comparing a Noveske rifle to a $500 AR is like saying a Casio is as nice a watch as a Rolex.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:47 pm to Bigsampson
quote:
Sorry,
But you are wrong.
I'm wrong and so is the Army that has spent tens of millions of dollars over the decades studying these rifles in ways no civilian company can even approach...
quote:
You can swap the units out, and without any other alteration and see differences in accuracy at 200 yards.
You're a data point of one. Try that with 10,000+ rounds of ammo from a single manufacturing lot on an instrumented range that can capture and characterize a bullet in flight to the target and the exact cyclic behavior of the BCG in the rifles. The Army has in fact done exactly this and there was zero statistically meaningful change in accuracy. What changed was the BCG's behavior in a period of time after the bullet had left the barrel. The drive spring is purely about reliable function of the rifle and as long as there is sufficient drive force the rifle will function as it should. Elastic and viscous characteristics of the drive spring really only get critical when dealing with automatic rates of fire which is something nobody, competitor or recreational plinker, has to worry too much about. With you it might be a mental thing if the stock spring/buffer action is that distracting but nothing else.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 10:50 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
$3000?
Just get a Colt 6920 and call it a day.
Just get a Colt 6920 and call it a day.
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