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Message
re: Help choosing a rilfe
Posted on 10/25/11 at 11:02 am to Slickback
Posted on 10/25/11 at 11:02 am to Slickback
I've had a 30-06, .300 Win Mag, and 300 WSM. There is no difference in knock down power at all with a good hit. And a bad hit is still a bad hit with them all as well. The mags shoot A LITTLE flatter past 300 yards but not enough to worry about. I've sent the magnums on down the road and rely on the 30-06 now when I want a 30 caliber...that is if I don't go ahead and shoot a .308.
1
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:29 pm to Hawgon
To each his own. I'm not trying to argue, but that information if false. With a 180gr bullet at 200 yards the .300 WSM has nearly 1000ft/lbs more energy vs the 30-06 (2598 vs 1635). Does this difference matter on a perfect shot? No, but no matter how good you shoot if you hunt long enough a bad shot will happen. That extra 1000ft/lbs is a nice insurance policy. I feel you should shoot the most powerful cartridge that you can accurately and comfortably handle.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:46 pm to Raz4back
I'm not looking at any charts right now, but I doubt 180 to 180 grains, its close to 1000 ft/lbs. Even if it is an extra thousand ft/lbs. in the gut isn't going to make any difference on a kill either.
This post was edited on 10/25/11 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:53 pm to upgrade
quote:
30-06 Spfd. (180 Sp) 2700 2023 2913 1635
quote:
.300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp) 2960 2540 3501 2578
quote:
.300 Ultra Mag (180 Sp) 3250 2834 4221 3201
The last number is the energy at 200yds.
And you're terribly wrong. A bad shot with 1000ft/lbs will bring a deer down much faster.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:55 pm to upgrade
.25-06 puts their dick in the dirt.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:56 pm to bbvdd
You're terribly wrong. A bad shot with a .700 nitro express isn't bringing anything down.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 12:57 pm to bbvdd
Well I don't have much experience with bad shots in the gut. Perhaps you do?
By the way he said WSM as in Winchester Short Magnum.
By the way he said WSM as in Winchester Short Magnum.
This post was edited on 10/25/11 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:00 pm to upgrade
quote:
.300 WSM (180 Sp) 2970 2549 3526 2598
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:01 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I purposely gut shot a 300 lb boar at 75 yards with my .300 WSM, hoping it would run off to die.Dang thing dropped on the spot.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:05 pm to Raz4back
Dang that sucks. See if you would use a 30-06 like we suggested he would have run off and saved you trouble. 
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:05 pm to Raz4back
Shoot it in the arse next time. It will run off.
No amount of power can overcome poor shot placement unless you get into artillery.
No amount of power can overcome poor shot placement unless you get into artillery.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:07 pm to Raz4back
An animal shot in the gut will die no faster with a magnum than it will with a regular caliber. Facts are facts.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:10 pm to Hawgon
As the saying goes, a ..243 in the lungs is better then a .300 mag in the guts.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:13 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
As the saying goes, a ..243 in the lungs is better then a .300 mag in the guts.
Birdshot behind the shoulder is better than buckshot in a tree.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:17 pm to Hawgon
quote:
An animal shot in the gut will die no faster with a magnum than it will with a regular caliber. Facts are facts.
I agree with this. The only reason to move up in power, is to compensate for more meat/bone/hide/fat you have to get through retaining enough energy to wreck the vitals, and bleed out the animal.
All of this requires consideration of the animal species, the animals size and health, distance shooting and often overlooked, the construction of the bullet being used.
In particular... I think when hunting dangerous game, you can make an argument for larger calibers and more powerful magnums for a few reasons. One is that you may be forced to take a less than optimal shot to protect yourself.
In the end though... if you don't hit vitals... it's not going to matter that much what you're missing with.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:19 pm to bbvdd
And by the way, I can get about 2850 fps with 180s from my FN Mauser with a 24 inch barrel with a max load of 57.5 grains of H4350 behind a 180 grain bullet. Hornady Superformance ammo shows about the same for their 180 load. So, you are talking about 100 fps difference. That isn't much. A bullet thrown at you at 100fps wouldn't even break the skin.
But I rarely use 180s for deer because most 180s are constructed too heavily to give the best performance on deer. I shoot 150s and 3000 fps is nothing for those with a 30-06.
In the real world, there isn't much difference.
I think the best place for magnums is their flatter trajectory makes long range shooting easier. Or it did in the days before laser rangefinders and compensating scopes.
If you want more killing power, you need to move up in caliber. A round of moderate velocity like a 9.3x62 but of larger caliber (.366) will have much more knockdown power than a very fast .30 magnum.
But I rarely use 180s for deer because most 180s are constructed too heavily to give the best performance on deer. I shoot 150s and 3000 fps is nothing for those with a 30-06.
In the real world, there isn't much difference.
I think the best place for magnums is their flatter trajectory makes long range shooting easier. Or it did in the days before laser rangefinders and compensating scopes.
If you want more killing power, you need to move up in caliber. A round of moderate velocity like a 9.3x62 but of larger caliber (.366) will have much more knockdown power than a very fast .30 magnum.
This post was edited on 10/25/11 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:37 pm to Hawgon
Now you are comparing a hand load to a factory load. That's not really a fair comparison. Do you not think the similar gains can be made hand loading magnum cartridges?
An animal shot through the gut may or may not die faster with a magnum load. It depends on bullet expansion and energy transferred. In theory, the bullet carrying more ft/lbs of energy will create more tissue damage resulting in greater blood loss and thus quicker death. Of course this is nullified if there is little bullet expansion.
An animal shot through the gut may or may not die faster with a magnum load. It depends on bullet expansion and energy transferred. In theory, the bullet carrying more ft/lbs of energy will create more tissue damage resulting in greater blood loss and thus quicker death. Of course this is nullified if there is little bullet expansion.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:39 pm to Raz4back
And shot in the gut you won't get much expansion.
The organs aren't realy that tough.
The organs aren't realy that tough.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:43 pm to Raz4back
quote:
Now you are comparing a hand load to a factory load. That's not really a fair comparison. Do you not think the similar gains can be made hand loading magnum cartridges?
Not with a WSM. Since most WSMs are less than 10 years old, they are loaded VERY HOT at the factory. Some of the original WSM loads were so hot that they were causing sticky bolt lifts on brand new rifles. Some of the WSM loads exceeded 70,000 PSI.
So, since WSMs are loaded so hot at the factory, there is really no gain that can be obtained from handloads. In fact, most handloaders have had trouble matching factory (or claimed) velocities.
Whereas with the 30-06 the manufacturer loading factory ammunition doesn't know whether it is going to be shot in a brand new rifle or grandpa's low numbered Springfield made over 100 years ago. Therefore, factory pressures, and therefore velocities, are kept low enough to be safe in a firearm made a 100 years ago and shot who knows how many times and maintained who knows how badly. As a result, there are significant gains that can be made in velocity by handloading for the 30-06 as opposed to a WSM.
Posted on 10/25/11 at 1:51 pm to Hawgon
Everyone of you is carrying too much gun.
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