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Started By
Message
Glock 43x/48 - Hellcat Pro - Sig P365 xMacro
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:42 am
Posted on 9/4/22 at 11:42 am
I have all four now and since the topic comes up fairly often about these 'slim' or 'compact' guns I am going to add my two cents. Hopefully it helps someone. I am not going to bore you with my background. Former military and law enforcement. I have big hands, and haven't been able to use the standard Hellcat or standard P365 because they didn't fit my hand. I don't like a 2/2.5 finger grip on a pistol frame so they were always out of the picture for me. The Hellcat Pro is really close to not fitting my hand, but just barely does. I am going to lump the 43x and 48 together for my comparison. Realistically there isn't a ton of difference IMO in the two. These are just my impressions. If you are considering getting any of these find one at a local gun store and handle all of them. I have only had the Hellcat Pro a few weeks, and the P365 xMacro for a week, so I can't speak to their longevity. I have put a boatload of rounds through my Glocks through, and can vouch for their wear and tear over time.
All of them
-They are all accurate out of the box IMO.
-You, well at least I do, have to be conscious of the trigger and use the support hand to not pull low/left, more so than on a full size pistol. Work your fundamentals and you'll be fine.
-All are easy to field strip. If you can strip one, you can strip the others. They are all designed similarly.
Glock 43x/48
Like
-The price. Pretty self-explanatory. It is less expensive than the others, and the magazines are a hell of a lot cheaper.
-Everyone in my family has different size hands, and all of us find the grip comfortable. I do not know how they did it, but it is an impressive engineering feat.
-Most of the dislikes about the Glocks can be 'fixed' with readily available after-market items. The after market is huge and you can find about anything you want at any time online.
-I think it is easier to clean than the other pistols. The finish seems to lend itself to removing carbon, more so than the others IMO.
Dislike
-Default 10 round magazines. That just isn't going to cut it anymore, and I don't know if they are going to do anything about it anytime soon. I have the Shield Arms 15 round magazines and mag releases on my carry 43x/48.
-The default sights should be night sights IMO. Again, you can pick up a set for roughly $100, but it should be the standard IMO.
-The price savings start to go out the window the more after-market items you add on to fix whatever issue you have with the pistol.
Hellcat Pro
Like
-The default sights are my favorite out of all of the guns. They are easy to pick up and get on target after each shot. Default front night sight.
-15 round default magazine.
-The grip when shooting really sticks to your hand due to the stippling.
-The 'Gear Up' promotion they currently have will get you three magazines and a small range bag. Now available through the end of September 2022.
-Default Red dot ready.
Dislike
-It is the 'snappiest' of all of the guns listed. I don't have an issue getting back on target, but it is noticeably snappier than the others.
-The grip when carrying really sticks to your skin due to the stippling. I ended up getting a Hogue Jr. grip sleeve after the road rash it gave me the 1st time I carried it.
-Magazine prices, if you can even find one, is not cheap right now. I think they are holding on to the magazines for the 'Gear Up' promotion.
P365 xMacro
Like
-17 round magazines out of the box. I never thought I would see a 'slim' or 'compact' pistol with a flush 17 round magazine. Damn if they didn't do it, and do it well. I'll take the added insurance of a default two more rounds in a magazine every day all day.
-The grip is really nice. The backstraps are simple to swap out and it helps. It really fits my hand well.
-Default front and rear night sights. The rear night sights are a little small, but are not bad at all.
-There is noticeably less recoil due to the ported slide. I wouldn't call it revolutionary, but it is definitely noticeable and makes it softer shooting and easier to get back on target than the others.
-Default Red dot ready.
-I like the trigger on the xMacro more than the others.
Dislike
-It is the most expensive of the lot (but worth it IMO).
-Magazines are nonexistent for purchase right now. In theory they will be released closer to Christmas, if you believe forum talk. The other issue with the release of the magazines is that you will be fighting against everyone who owns a P365 who wants a 17 round magazine. Reloading the same two magazines over and over while shooting sucks, but it will eventually work itself out.
-The magazine prices are to be $55-65 per magazine.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the four. They are all quality pistols, and all will do the job they are intended for. It boils down to an individual choice. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whichever one you get.
All of them
-They are all accurate out of the box IMO.
-You, well at least I do, have to be conscious of the trigger and use the support hand to not pull low/left, more so than on a full size pistol. Work your fundamentals and you'll be fine.
-All are easy to field strip. If you can strip one, you can strip the others. They are all designed similarly.
Glock 43x/48
Like
-The price. Pretty self-explanatory. It is less expensive than the others, and the magazines are a hell of a lot cheaper.
-Everyone in my family has different size hands, and all of us find the grip comfortable. I do not know how they did it, but it is an impressive engineering feat.
-Most of the dislikes about the Glocks can be 'fixed' with readily available after-market items. The after market is huge and you can find about anything you want at any time online.
-I think it is easier to clean than the other pistols. The finish seems to lend itself to removing carbon, more so than the others IMO.
Dislike
-Default 10 round magazines. That just isn't going to cut it anymore, and I don't know if they are going to do anything about it anytime soon. I have the Shield Arms 15 round magazines and mag releases on my carry 43x/48.
-The default sights should be night sights IMO. Again, you can pick up a set for roughly $100, but it should be the standard IMO.
-The price savings start to go out the window the more after-market items you add on to fix whatever issue you have with the pistol.
Hellcat Pro
Like
-The default sights are my favorite out of all of the guns. They are easy to pick up and get on target after each shot. Default front night sight.
-15 round default magazine.
-The grip when shooting really sticks to your hand due to the stippling.
-The 'Gear Up' promotion they currently have will get you three magazines and a small range bag. Now available through the end of September 2022.
-Default Red dot ready.
Dislike
-It is the 'snappiest' of all of the guns listed. I don't have an issue getting back on target, but it is noticeably snappier than the others.
-The grip when carrying really sticks to your skin due to the stippling. I ended up getting a Hogue Jr. grip sleeve after the road rash it gave me the 1st time I carried it.
-Magazine prices, if you can even find one, is not cheap right now. I think they are holding on to the magazines for the 'Gear Up' promotion.
P365 xMacro
Like
-17 round magazines out of the box. I never thought I would see a 'slim' or 'compact' pistol with a flush 17 round magazine. Damn if they didn't do it, and do it well. I'll take the added insurance of a default two more rounds in a magazine every day all day.
-The grip is really nice. The backstraps are simple to swap out and it helps. It really fits my hand well.
-Default front and rear night sights. The rear night sights are a little small, but are not bad at all.
-There is noticeably less recoil due to the ported slide. I wouldn't call it revolutionary, but it is definitely noticeable and makes it softer shooting and easier to get back on target than the others.
-Default Red dot ready.
-I like the trigger on the xMacro more than the others.
Dislike
-It is the most expensive of the lot (but worth it IMO).
-Magazines are nonexistent for purchase right now. In theory they will be released closer to Christmas, if you believe forum talk. The other issue with the release of the magazines is that you will be fighting against everyone who owns a P365 who wants a 17 round magazine. Reloading the same two magazines over and over while shooting sucks, but it will eventually work itself out.
-The magazine prices are to be $55-65 per magazine.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the four. They are all quality pistols, and all will do the job they are intended for. It boils down to an individual choice. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whichever one you get.
7
Posted on 9/4/22 at 12:23 pm to 21zereaux
All the $500+ polymer pistols come down to personal preference these days. Most likely they will all out shoot the shooter and be reasonably reliable. Just get what you like.
Posted on 9/4/22 at 12:27 pm to 21zereaux
Very good and well thought out review.
Posted on 9/4/22 at 1:28 pm to 21zereaux
You need to try out the Shadow Systems CR920 or the MR920 next
Posted on 9/4/22 at 1:50 pm to 21zereaux
The Shield 15 round mags (flush mount) are a good add-on. They cost more than a typical Glock mag, but probably no more than a SIG mag - and the G48 grip gives you a lot better firing grip w/ less muzzle flip than the P365 Hellcat.
The G48 (w/ Shield mags) and the 365 Macro stack up pretty evenly. I think the price difference is about $200.
ETA: Ported barrel on the 365 Macro (or on any pistol) is a bad feature for CCW or home defense.
The G48 (w/ Shield mags) and the 365 Macro stack up pretty evenly. I think the price difference is about $200.
ETA: Ported barrel on the 365 Macro (or on any pistol) is a bad feature for CCW or home defense.
This post was edited on 9/4/22 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 9/4/22 at 2:12 pm to JohnWicksDawg
quote:
ETA: Ported barrel on the 365 Macro (or on any pistol) is a bad feature for CCW or home defense.
I think that is overstated. Shooting 124gr HST out of the Macro is a noticeable difference in comparison to tge G43x and 48. The muzzle flash isn’t much different. I’ll take getting back on target faster over worrying about extra muzzle flash.
IMO the cost difference on the macro isn’t much different than the G48 and 43 if you take into account most people that buy the glocks are going to add NS, shield mags and the metal mag release.
This post was edited on 9/4/22 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 9/4/22 at 2:41 pm to JohnWicksDawg
quote:
ETA: Ported barrel on the 365 Macro (or on any pistol) is a bad feature for CCW or home defense.
What do you consider a negative of a ported barrel?
Posted on 9/4/22 at 2:56 pm to armsdealer
he’s probably referring to muzzle flash. Which is true but really unlikely to matter in a home defense. People like to assume there will be an extended firefight because that’s what they see on TV. In reality you’ll be both lucky and unlucky if you have squeeze off a single shot.
If you think there will be a volley of bullets you’d better grab your rifle
If you think there will be a volley of bullets you’d better grab your rifle
Posted on 9/4/22 at 3:16 pm to 21zereaux
Posted on 9/4/22 at 4:45 pm to armsdealer
The muzzle flash has already been mentioned - although it will vary greatly with different powders.
I know of two instances where the shooter got debris (unburnt powder, burn powder ?) under his glasses and needed care from eye doctor for mild scratches. Both were with ported Glocks (One was .40 G23C, maybe both - don't recall).
Most self-defense calibers don't have enough recoil to require porting. Maybe the P365 does - I've only shot a couple of mags thru one (an un-ported 365). Muzzle flip was about like a G43 - quite noticeable but not crazy uncontrollable.
ETA: Shooting from retention will put those ports a lot closer to your eyes.
I know of two instances where the shooter got debris (unburnt powder, burn powder ?) under his glasses and needed care from eye doctor for mild scratches. Both were with ported Glocks (One was .40 G23C, maybe both - don't recall).
Most self-defense calibers don't have enough recoil to require porting. Maybe the P365 does - I've only shot a couple of mags thru one (an un-ported 365). Muzzle flip was about like a G43 - quite noticeable but not crazy uncontrollable.
ETA: Shooting from retention will put those ports a lot closer to your eyes.
This post was edited on 9/4/22 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 9/4/22 at 6:54 pm to 21zereaux
quote:
I never thought I would see a 'slim' or 'compact' pistol with a flush 17 round magazine. Damn if they didn't do it, and do it well.
It's slim, but that grip length is getting well out of compact territory.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 7:59 am to 21zereaux
You should really take a look at the Taurus GX4-XL
Posted on 9/5/22 at 10:48 am to bbvdd
quote:
Very good and well thought out review.
Thanks
Posted on 9/5/22 at 10:53 am to 21zereaux
Some really good posts so far.
I don't have access to those unfortunately, but please, add them to this with your impressions and what you like and dislike. I'd love to hear what y'all think about them.
quote:
You need to try out the Shadow Systems CR920 or the MR920 next
quote:
Don't forget about the S&W M&P Shield Plus.
quote:
You should really take a look at the Taurus GX4-XL
I don't have access to those unfortunately, but please, add them to this with your impressions and what you like and dislike. I'd love to hear what y'all think about them.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 11:13 am to JohnWicksDawg
quote:
ETA: Shooting from retention will put those ports a lot closer to your eyes.
That is a good point, and one I didn't think about but should have. When I was a cop I would practice shooting from retention a good bit, but have got away from it in recent years. It is one of the most fun ways to practice IMO, and practical as well.
Long story short and to save a few Google's, shooting from retention is shooting when you cannot extend your arms to a 'normal' shooting stance. It is usually reserved for an 'oh shite' moment where speed is a necessity or the person is so close to you that it isn't safe to extend your arms. It is typically defined 0-3 yards. For example, I am right handed and carry at the 3 o'clock position. My pistol, when fired from retention, would typically be around my right hip and obviously pointed towards the target. Use your wrist to get on target and work the elevation. Walk your shots in if you have to. By all means though, please be careful. To begin, keep your off hand in your pocket until you get a good amount of practice in and can keep it out of the way.
I plan on taking my wife and youngest out tonight to shoot at dusk/dark so they know what it is like to shoot at night. I'll test shooting the xMacro from retention and let you know what happens. It will also give me a chance to see what it is like shooting it at night.
Posted on 9/5/22 at 11:23 am to JohnWicksDawg
quote:
The Shield 15 round mags (flush mount) are a good add-on. They cost more than a typical Glock mag, but probably no more than a SIG mag
It isn't much more than the Glock factory magazines. I bought mine directly from Shield Arms. If you buy them in bulk it ends up being cheaper.
https://shieldarms.com/s15-combos
Their 10 pack, which they call it "S15 Combo Pack 6", is $369.99, so it works out to $36.99 a magazine. The 5 pack, called "S15 Combo Pack 5" is $189.99, or $37.99 a magazine. You will need the mag release, which is running $28.99 now here:
https://shieldarms.com/glock-43x-48-mag-release
Posted on 9/5/22 at 11:51 am to Flats
quote:
It's slim, but that grip length is getting well out of compact territory.
I think that gun manufacturers have muddied the waters on the definition of 'compact'. You have micro-compact, subcompact, compact, and standard. I will use Glock's definitions as an example, as they lay it out nicely and easy to see. https://us.glock.com/en/pistols
They feel that the 42 and 43 (not 43x) are subcompacts. They also feel that the 26 and 43x are subcompacts, when there is obviously a difference in size. I would call the 42/43 (not 43x) micro-compacts, or more to the point, things that will never fit in my hand. They believe that the 19, 48 and 45 (which my wife has and it uses the standard or full-size 17 frame) are compacts. Finally the 17,20, etc are 'standard' or full-size.
Now, common sense tells us that these are all different, and quite honestly, boils down to what someone is willing to carry. I use a website to dive into the details when comparing different pistols, and it is really helpful to me. https://www.handgunhero.com/
Here is a good example of what I would use it for, comparing a Glock 48 to the Sig xMacro:
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/glock-g48-vs-sig-sauer-p365-xmacro
You can drop and drag, change the opacity of the pistols and check them out from multiple angles to see the differences. It is very helpful to me. You can really get into the finer details of size and what to expect. Another example, here are all four pistols I compared in the original post: https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/glock-g48-vs-sig-sauer-p365-xmacro-vs-springfield-hellcat-pro-vs-glock-g43x
You can do a lot with it. It can be a rabbit hole if you love looking at pistols. It will certainly help with looking at frame length and grip length.
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