DVMs of the OB...career questions

This is not AVMA, it's through principal Financial. She was told that they were not the people to get disability through. But that's who they suggested for liability.

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My wife parted ways with a former employer because he tried to frick her out of some production that wasn't listed in her contract.

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Like what? Any specifics to look for?

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Entry level jobs don't pay shite

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I have heard between 60-75. In and of itself, that's not bad, but damn... The amount of school and time and debt is incredible.

Thanks for the input.

Congrats to her. It's quite a feeling to finally be done - one I'll never forget

It's good that she isn't graduating when I did and the effects of recession were in full effect. It's not good that the past 5 years have seen outrageous increases in class sizes = more competition.

There are plenty of jobs out there for someone who is willing to be flexible in location. I don't think this is at all unique to vet med - she's going to have more difficulty and probably less bargaining power if she is trying to limit herself to one area that is, I assume, already very saturated with vets. Most towns with vet schools have lots of vets for various reasons.

The AVMA website and VIN (she'll be familiar with these) both have classified job listings. Also - there are some facebook groups that are exclusively for vets and sometimes job info is shared in them. The biggest one I know of is for vets only, no students allowed - she'd have to wait for that.

There are headhunter services though I'm not sure if they do general practice vets or not?

She willing to work ER for her first job? A bit stressful at first b/c you get your feet put right to the fire but there's always openings out there for ER vets. It's good money and a great way to get tons of experience really quickly due to the fact that you're seeing nothing but sick cases.

I can't remember how much my disability is but it is offered through the job - I think this is pretty typical.

I have never had an attorney review my contracts but they've always been straightforward and within my business understanding. She needs to read up/research what are typical payout schemes in terms of base, production, etc... Needs to know typical percentages for production.

And not just general production - what meds go toward her production total? Rx Food sales? What about refills on meds when she's not in the hospital but it's a long standing patient of hers for which she's the original prescriber and doctor overseeing things? Sometimes that goes to whichever vet is working that day which is bogus, IMO. If I'm responsible for all the decisions on a long term case any meds need to be credited to me.

How are client calls, labwork results, etc. handled on her day off? It's BS if she has to deal with that crap on her days off but it def happens, A LOT. What about the on call schedule if that's offered? Need to know every single detail about on call schedule b/c that can ruin your life if you have to answer the phone every time Mrs. Jones wants to describe Bella's feces in detail and is having a freak out b/c the dog took 3 naps today instead of 2. If she does have to answer calls or even go in to meet a client after hours what sort of bonus is offered for those?

Starting salary will vary with location like every job - I honestly couldn't give a great estimate on that for general practice vets

I hope at least some of this helps

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I have heard between 60-75. In and of itself, that's not bad, but damn... The amount of school and time and debt is incredible.

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OK, that is pretty similar to what I remember. Yes, it is a poor investment for a lot of people b/c you have more education than 95% of the population yet you graduate nowadays with at least $150K debt and that starting salary. It is, for many, a hole that they'll never dig out of.

I think Aubie hit on a lot of points. I started on a flat salary for my first few years and always felt I got shorted. So I would recommend a pro-sal type setup but some new grads are timid due to having no established clientele. It really depends on how motivated she is to work. I am on my third new grad working for me and one was a complete flop. She didn't want to work hard and be busy. She just wanted to cuddle puppies and kittens all day. If she works hard and practices good medicine then she will be fine. The real world is a lot different then vet school. I love emergency and that's how I used to make extra money and then ultimately bought into practice and turned into a 24/7 clinic. It's tough work but like he said it's great experience.

I never had an attorney go over my contracts initially. Just don't be scared to ask for things. Most clinics will offer health insurance and 401k with a matching option but I pay my own disability. It's $200 a month but being that I hunt and fish a lot I'm always worried I'll have an accident and can't work so I keep it. Starting salary is going to depend a lot on clinic size, volume, are they higher cost. You spay a 100 animals at shelter vs 100 animals at high end private practice your compensation is going to be different because the medicine and quality are different. I would say starting average is 75k. But like I said in a pro sal situation your base is maybe 75 but if you produce equivalent of 100k then you get paid on 100k. If she finds an area she likes then pay attention to things like a no compete so they don't block her from working in that area should she leave. I'd shoot for 18-20% production across the board excluding refills.

If she has any other questions post them and we can all help out.

Owners are always a little timid to hire new grads just cause you have no idea what you are getting. 4.0 and top of your class doesn't make you a good clinician. It's about interacting with clients as much as it is diagnosing disease. You don't have a lot of leverage but a new grad willing to work on production takes pressure off owner tonsomw degree. If she is working hard making practice money then they are happy to pay her but if you have to pay someone set salary and they can't reach those production goals then practice loses money. She could make some options such as a monthly evaluation and if she is exceeding her production then she gets a bonus.
For instance and ease of calculating let's say she makes a $50k a year. Well then she needs to produce $250k a year at 20% production to justify that salary. Now in a flat salary situation say she produces $350k which is 100k over what she needed, then hospital doesn't have to pay her for the extra. On a production type compensation she would get paid 20% of that 350 which is $70k but what if you produce nothing or a very low amount. So in a pro-sal setup she has a base salary that she gets regardless and then gets paid extra if she exceeds its. So win win for both sides.

But like I said what type of practice you are talking about might change opinion on what's best. Ask what average production for full time vets at practice are. What is hospitals gross production. Those things will give you an idea of what can be expected. If it's a 2 dr clinic and average gross production for a dr is 3-400k then expect to get paid 60-80k plus benefits.
There are different models for compensation on food and RX meds. Sometimes depends on what clinic marks up meds and food. We only give production if you send home meds or food during a visit. Refills go to hospital. Just isn't enough markup to give dr credit every time they refill. Majority of production comes from services though.

My disability covers up to like 75% of salary so it has gone up as salary has gone up. It's really a complete gamble but with wife and kids, you don't want them to be screwed should something happen. Knew a girl who got severe fibromyalgia and couldn't work, she gets 90k a year till she dies thanks to Disability insurance.

Thanks a ton, there is some really great, in depth advice in here. Way more than I was expecting. As always, the OB delivers.

She has 2 interviews, one tomorrow and one Friday. Any tips on interviewing? Are they looking for technical knowledge in a recent graduate? In my mind, they have a general idea what someone just graduating would be capable of and the interviews are for personality as much as skill. Is that reasonable?

Ditto

Gotta hit the books hard but he'll make it in if he wants it bad enough.

The financial matters and expectations should, imo, be crystal clear before starting the application process. There's some good info in this thread - id pay attention to the practice owner above.

I don't have anything to add to your questions but just wanted to send props to any LSU vet students that may be reading this thread. Had a crew come out a few weeks ago to assist in pulling a calf. Was pleased and look forward to having some good large animal vets running around the state in the future