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Started By
Message
AR- Question about "build vs firearm"
Posted on 8/4/21 at 10:00 am
Posted on 8/4/21 at 10:00 am
I'm asking for informed opinions (not binding legal advice), since I'm new to the AR platform, and there is a proposed change coming from the ATF regarding braces.
The new rule, as it seems to be worded, would make some braces into stocks, and thus change a pistol into a short barrel rifle. It appears the remedy is to register the firearm as an SBR, or turn it in.
It appears to state that if the firearm was "a build", one has the option of removing the brace.
So- question: a "complete lower". Came with brace attached. Did not come with upper. Purchased and signed in as a pistol.
Is this a build (and thus the brace removing remedy would apply)?
Second question:
10.5" barreled upper.
In the event my lower is disallowed as a "pistol", what is the legality of owning/possessing this upper? Are we allowed to have one, even boxed up, without current ownership of a pistol lower?
Or does this also pose an issue?
Would one be required to own at least a stripped lower designated as "pistol"?
The new rule, as it seems to be worded, would make some braces into stocks, and thus change a pistol into a short barrel rifle. It appears the remedy is to register the firearm as an SBR, or turn it in.
It appears to state that if the firearm was "a build", one has the option of removing the brace.
So- question: a "complete lower". Came with brace attached. Did not come with upper. Purchased and signed in as a pistol.
Is this a build (and thus the brace removing remedy would apply)?
Second question:
10.5" barreled upper.
In the event my lower is disallowed as a "pistol", what is the legality of owning/possessing this upper? Are we allowed to have one, even boxed up, without current ownership of a pistol lower?
Or does this also pose an issue?
Would one be required to own at least a stripped lower designated as "pistol"?
4
Posted on 8/4/21 at 10:47 am to Scoob
quote:
Purchased and signed in as a pistol.
Signed in as a pistol... what does this mean?
quote:
Are we allowed to have one, even boxed up, without current ownership of a pistol lower
They invented the charge of "Constructive Possession/Intent" to cover this. You have the materials on hand to make an SBR, therefore you are guilty of doing it. Thought crimes, though it cannot be proven that you will or will not. Best bet is to have a lower for it or finish an 80% (for a 100% lower it must have never been registered/serialized as a rifle).
Like owning;
An oil filter and a threaded adapter.
A piece of pipe and fender washers.
etc....
Not a lawyer, not legal advice, no Holiday Inn Express.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 10:57 am to Scoob
quote:
and thus the brace removing remedy would apply
yes, AR pistols for years were known as an AR with just a buffer tube and short barrel.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 11:23 am to dakarx
quote:the ffl that it was shipped to, as i understand, called it a pistol on the 4473?
Signed in as a pistol... what does this mean?
Uncertain as to the fine details, but it is currently legal as a pistol. So however it was entered into the books.
I believe Palmetto listed it as a pistol, complete lower
Posted on 8/4/21 at 11:32 am to civiltiger07
(no message)
Posted on 8/4/21 at 6:01 pm to Scoob
Sounds like you need to purchase a few 80% lowers. Stay out of SBR territory, but the 80% will let you do whatever you want as far as pistol/rifle.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 6:37 pm to Scoob
If you possess an upper shorter than 16” and have a complete lower hanging around they can get you with “constructive intent”.
Or you could just keep living your life like a free citizen.
Or you could just keep living your life like a free citizen.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 7:10 pm to ZoneLiftGMC
If they come at you for NFA you have bigger problems.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:12 pm to ZoneLiftGMC
quote:So, the short answer is:
If you possess an upper shorter than 16” and have a complete lower hanging around they can get you with “constructive intent”.
to be completely safe going forward, I should get either a stripped lower + a pistol kit, or a pistol complete lower with simply the buffer tube covered with foam.
Right?
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:43 pm to Scoob
Even that might be a risk if the proposed brace/SBR guideline is passed
Posted on 8/4/21 at 9:29 pm to The Nino
quote:If I have a lower (designated legally as a pistol), without a brace of any sort-
Even that might be a risk if the proposed brace/SBR guideline is passed
that bypasses the new proposition entirely. The basis of that new rule will be to evaluate the brace; I would have it attached to a lower without a brace.
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