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Message
re: Will Smith Murder Trial-Guilty of manslaughter and attempted manslaughter
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:26 pm to Mr. Hangover
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:26 pm to Mr. Hangover
quote:
Nado I'm pretty neutral on this case (at least til more facts come out) so I don't have an ax to grind with you, but this same line of thinking is the exact reason why the country is where it is now... nobody fights anymore, everyone just shoots each other
You act as though fighting is some badge of honor. Reeks of machismo. Im a small guy. If Im attacked Im shooting.
Youtube the video of the school bully viciously attacking a much smaller student in a cafeteria with nothing but his fists. That student is now a permanent vegetable with severe neurological damage. Its one of the most disturbing videos of violence Ive ever seen.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:27 pm
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Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:27 pm to TigerFred
Remember that second degree murder is nothing more than a murder committed with specific intent to kill. That specific intent can be formed in an instant, literally the second you decide to raise the weapon. It's not a difficult charge to prove.
As far as how it's going, I honestly don't have any idea. I was there yesterday to watch them open and I left. I saw a little of Racquel's testimony when I had to go back to the building later. I've sporadically seen tweets posted here. I certainly don't give much weight to tweets from lawyers like Foret who have never sniffed a trial in the building or reporters who don't really know what they're seeing. You haven't even seen half of the state's case yet, and no defense, so I think it's a bit of a jump to be trying to decide what the verdict is.
Like I previously said, this is all about closing and rebuttal. I do think it's going to be very difficult to overcome him getting out of a car with a gun in his hand and shooting a person who, if you believe he was getting his own gun, was putting himself in the same position as Hayes.
As far as how it's going, I honestly don't have any idea. I was there yesterday to watch them open and I left. I saw a little of Racquel's testimony when I had to go back to the building later. I've sporadically seen tweets posted here. I certainly don't give much weight to tweets from lawyers like Foret who have never sniffed a trial in the building or reporters who don't really know what they're seeing. You haven't even seen half of the state's case yet, and no defense, so I think it's a bit of a jump to be trying to decide what the verdict is.
Like I previously said, this is all about closing and rebuttal. I do think it's going to be very difficult to overcome him getting out of a car with a gun in his hand and shooting a person who, if you believe he was getting his own gun, was putting himself in the same position as Hayes.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:28 pm to tgrbaitn08
I've been following this thread pretty closely since yesterday. I may have missed a few things that I'm hoping will be addressed tomorrow but there seem to be a few important questions that haven't been answered. I'm curious about whether or not a gun was actually recovered from Smiths vehicle. Was the crime scene processed properly? Seems like I read somewhere in here that the vehicle was towed to impound before it was actually searched.
I'm also wondering when shirtless turned back up since he fled the scene. Anybody else thinking that he could have possibly been in charge of "party favors" beyond the scope of alcohol?
Anyways... This has definitely captured my interest and I appreciate the posters here who have shared some insight.
I'm also wondering when shirtless turned back up since he fled the scene. Anybody else thinking that he could have possibly been in charge of "party favors" beyond the scope of alcohol?
Anyways... This has definitely captured my interest and I appreciate the posters here who have shared some insight.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:32 pm to diat150
quote:
my guess is that she is victim of collateral damage.
Not sure I agree with your statement.
Racquel was shot around the knees and Will was shot upper body. Heightwise, Racquel only came up to Will's shoulder.
I think the bullets went where Hayes intended them to go.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:33 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
I advise him to drive off. Getting out while armed is instigating.
Nice emotional argument tho
Are you dense? Have you never driven in the city of NOLA? It isnt always that easy to just back up. How do you know he wasnt boxed in?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:34 pm to learnthehardway
quote:
I'm curious about whether or not a gun was actually recovered from Smiths vehicle.
yes, it was found between the driver seat and the center console. one of the witnesses on scene said they saw the glovebox open and another said they didnt see a weapon. nobody knew how the glovebox got opened.
Was the crime scene processed properly? Seems like I read somewhere in here that the vehicle was towed to impound before it was actually searched.
yes thats what happened and is where the gun was found.
I'm also wondering when shirtless turned back up since he fled the scene. Anybody else thinking that he could have possibly been in charge of "party favors" beyond the scope of alcohol?
very possible. He never came back to the scene. supposedly he hopped in a cab and left his wife after hayes shot. I get the feeling that his wife felt he played a part in escalating the situation because she never mentioned anything to the cops that night about him at all despite other witnesses like PT saying that he took a swing at hayes passenger. really weird situation concerning him.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:36 pm to tigerpimpbot
It definitely is interesting. I imagine he'll put on anything he has Friday at the earliest.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:37 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
So what if they did?
You can't respond with a goddamn gun.
What don't you people understand about this? Hayes getting out with a gun makes him the aggressor. Period.
Serious question. Do you own a firearm?
A firearm is a tool for self-defense. If he was wearing his Swiss Army knife and the same incident occurred would you still be screaming, "he got out of the car with his Swiss Army Knife because two angry people approached him! Hes guilty!"
Sounds like youre putting firearms on a pedestal. Scared of things that go boom? Liberal much?
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:40 pm to tLSU
quote:
Like I previously said, this is all about closing and rebuttal. I do think it's going to be very difficult to overcome him getting out of a car with a gun in his hand and shooting a person who, if you believe he was getting his own gun, was putting himself in the same position as Hayes.
my thing is... so far through only 2 days of testimony... the story of the moment of infamy... the issue between Will and Cardell was seemingly over (through PT's testimony) and (through Racquel) Will was being walked back to his car by Racquel
the only mention of Will threatening to get his gun is by Cardell in the McGaw 911 tape... even the bystanders who have testified said they didn't hear any mention of a gun before the shooting
in fact... even O'Neal in 1 of the tapes played today (McGaw's 911 IIRC) said he didn't even think guns were coming out when the shooting happened
ETA: but yes... we still have a LONG way to go
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:42 pm to nola000
quote:
Serious question. Do you own a firearm?
A firearm is a tool for self-defense. If he was wearing his Swiss Army knife and the same incident occurred would you still be screaming, "he got out of the car with his Swiss Army Knife because two angry people approached him! Hes guilty!"
Sounds like youre putting firearms on a pedestal. Scared of things that go boom? Liberal much?
I own several, and at no time have I ever gotten out at the scene of an auto accident with a gun in my hand. No reasonable person is going to think "yea, that's normal."
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:43 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Fun Bunch has been telling you the last two pages. You're still ignoring it. How about you post a law that backs up your opinion that goes against the guy that does it for a living?
Getting out of your vehicle with your firearm is perfectly legal in the State of Louisiana. Do you want me to post the AGs opinion on the matter? In the case of C. Hayes he can even get out of his vehicle with it concealed being that he was a CCW holder(from what I understand).
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:45 pm to tLSU
quote:
I own several, and at no time have I ever gotten out at the scene of an auto accident with a gun in my hand. No reasonable person is going to think "yea, that's normal."
whats your thoughts on hayes saying he had a gun in hand vs all the other witnesses up to this point saying they didnt see a gun in hand until he started shooting? that seems impossible to me.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:45 pm to rt3
quote:
the only mention of Will threatening to get his gun is by Cardell in the McGaw 911 tape... even the bystanders who have testified said they didn't hear any mention of a gun before the shooting
in fact... even O'Neal in 1 of the tapes played today (McGaw's 911 IIRC) said he didn't even think guns were coming out when the shooting happened
This is going to be a big issue, as unless Fuller pulls a mystery witness out of his hat, Hayes is on an island with hearing about the gun, with possible inconsistent support from O'Neal.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:46 pm to learnthehardway
quote:
I'm curious about whether or not a gun was actually recovered from Smiths vehicle.
yes... this has been known since 2 days after the murder... it was found between the driver's seat and center console
quote:
Was the crime scene processed properly? Seems like I read somewhere in here that the vehicle was towed to impound before it was actually searched.
seems police did a cursory search of the vehicle at the scene (where they 1st saw Will's gun) and brought it to the impound for the full search with the warrant (where they actually "recovered" the gun and documented it)
quote:
I'm also wondering when shirtless turned back up since he fled the scene. Anybody else thinking that he could have possibly been in charge of "party favors" beyond the scope of alcohol?
this Hernandez guy seems to be the lone downside to the prosecution... he appears to be picking a fistfight with people bigger than him... still no reason to cap Will
ETA: on question 1... all casings found at the scene were .45 caliber... matching Hayes' weapon (Smith's was .22)
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:50 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:47 pm to tLSU
I can't wait to see how it plays out. I'll defer to your opinion on the prosecutor side, but I will not under any circumstances defer to chad504boy 
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:51 pm to nola000
quote:
Getting out of your vehicle with your firearm is perfectly legal in the State of Louisiana. Do you want me to post the AGs opinion on the matter? In the case of C. Hayes he can even get out of his vehicle with it concealed being that he was a CCW holder(from what I understand).
Once again, if you think that when the state stands up in closing and says "picture that you were just in an auto accident, and you get out of your car. The other party is standing there holding a gun" that a single juror will think that's reasonable, you're wrong. More importantly, you take the same scenario and have the other party shooting at you for going get a gun to put yourself on the same footing as him.... It's kind of a whole host of crazy theories.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:51 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
If he had concealed his weapon and doesn't have a concealed weapon permit, or it was not a registered weapon...I would argue if I was the prosecutor that Stand Your Ground doesn't apply because he was in the act of committing a crime.
Wrong. Maybe youre thinking...
(b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply when the person committing the homicide is engaged, at the time of the homicide, in the acquisition of, the distribution of, or possession of, with intent to distribute a controlled dangerous substance in violation of the provisions of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law.
Likely included to prevent drug dealers, users and manufacturers from claiming self-defense in their "dealings".
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:53 pm to nola000
Excluding the fact that he was drunk, Will Smith had more of a reason to get out of his vehicle with a gun than Hayes did....
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:55 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
You have to have imminent fear for your life to legally grab your gun?
quote:
out of your vehicle in a public argument, yes. you become the threat when you have the gun out for no good reason.
You see here. You contradict your own argument. You claim he exited his vehicle with his firearm. How could there have been an argument before he exited his vehicle? Therefor the argument with W. Smith is not the reason he exited his vehicle with his firearm. C. Hayes is going to have to demonstrate his reasons for exiting the vehicle with his firearm and then his justifications for fearing for life or great bodily harm AFTER the fact of exiting the vehicle with his firearm.
Yall really are terrible at critical thinking.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 10:59 pm to diat150
quote:
whats your thoughts on hayes saying he had a gun in hand vs all the other witnesses up to this point saying they didnt see a gun in hand until he started shooting? that seems impossible to me.
I honestly wouldn't be all that surprised since it sounded like a zoo immediately erupted, esp. if it's being held at the side by a guy who is 6'6" and 280. I have always thought that Smith originally didn't see it either, and that if the "oh, you have a gun? I'm going get mine" thing happened, it was immediately once he saw it. Keep in mind this might have been 20 seconds after the whole thing started.
But this is something I can only speculate on.
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