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re: Why is Judas vilified?
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:40 pm to LSUZombie
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:40 pm to LSUZombie
As a man, Judas had free will. He clearly knew who Jesus Christ was and in the end rejected and betrayed Him. Jesus Christ was the Messiah he needed but not the one he wanted.
As the Son of God, Jesus Christ had foreknowledge. He knew that Judas would betray Him and yet He chose Judas anyway. He gave Judas an opportunity to not sin against Him.
It is that simple.
As the Son of God, Jesus Christ had foreknowledge. He knew that Judas would betray Him and yet He chose Judas anyway. He gave Judas an opportunity to not sin against Him.
It is that simple.
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:43 pm to beantown
quote:
He can see all events that happen, but he cannot control their choices because of free will. He is just the observer. Those decisions have been already made at the one moment in time everything else in the universe happened.
Yeah, but he can't break the fourth wall and tell the mortals what they're going to do, like Jesus did with Peter. If Peter had stayed home and chilled out with some wine, he would have made a liar out of Jesus. If Peter had hung himself beforehand out of horror at Jesus's prediction, he would have made a liar out of Jesus. That's not allowed, so Peter had no choice. He was just a puppet.
Now, if it's all just a puppet show, why make it so convoluted and require blind faith in middle eastern nutjob oral tradition, with the gospels being written by people who never knew Jesus, who lived over 2000 years ago? The stories are indistinguishable from so many others most people dismiss.
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:46 pm to tuptiger
quote:Read Romans 9:14-29. One of the hardest passages in the Bible to understand and apply.
Why did God harden the heart of Pharoah then? Seems like free will has limits. Nebechunezzer ate grass because God gave him a mental illness.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:02 am to LSUZombie
Judas still had free will. Just because Jesus knew he would betray him doesn't mean Judas had no choice. He betrayed the son of God for money. His guilt was fully earned and he is right to be vilified.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:23 am to LSUZombie
I struggle with these questions as well. Praying for instance. Why pray if the outcome is already determined?
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:29 am to LSUZombie
quote:
The man was pre-selected to betray Jesus. Jesus even knew he was going to do it the entire time and while Jesus acted like Judas had free-will, his fate was set.
While God/Jesus may have been aware that Judas would be the disciple that led Jesus' enemies to him, it is a strange choice of words to say he was pre-selected... In general, if some random hero is trying to accomplish a mission and they openly walk into a trap knowing they will lose their life in the fulfillment of that mission, you wouldn't say their enemy was pre-selected despite having foreknowledge of what will happen.
quote:
So why is Judas always referenced as being in Hell? Or as a traitor?
The first question is a good one that leads to a rabbit hole of many questions, imo, as to the nature of the soul and salvation. On the surface, Hell would seem the appropriate realm for a soul that is the agent of the Devil / one who betrays God. But, as you suggest, Judas-- whether or not he knew the outcome of his betrayal would be the murder of Jesus-- grieves over his actions and returns the money. These are signs of repentance. Given that some of Jesus' last words were asking his Father to "forgive them...", I don't find it out of the realm of possibilities that forgiveness was possible to the extent Judas truly sought it. I know many Christians will not agree with this, and the probability of him having committed suicide further dims hope for that... but to God all things are possible and it isn't my place to judge the soul of Judas.
The 2nd question (Why is Judas referenced as a traitor?)... This is straight-forward. Judas was a traitor and that is something that-- religious or not-- is considered dishonorable. There is no context in which this can be spun as a positive. That Jesus is able to provide an example of perfect obedience to the will of his Father and simultaneously maintain perfect compassion for humanity in the face of treachery and mistreatment is independent of the treachery itself. The nobility of Jesus' actions are, in fact, transcendent in contrast to the treacherous behavior he endured. That is the whole point. You don't celebrate evil acts or the men who commit them even if the depths of their darkness make the acts of a good man shine all the brighter. Would you celebrate the drunk driver who kills a child... if that child's parents went on to start an organization like MADD? No, it wouldn't make sense. But you could admire a mother who, instead of sulking, turned her grief into positive action to help others.
But back to Judas... Do we vilify or celebrate him??? I say neither. The answer I see exists in the words of Christ on the cross when he pleaded with God to forgive humanity. Based on that, we should recognize our common humanity with Judas, feel compassion, forgive him and move on.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:25 am to epbart
Yes. We need forgiveness because God created a world where humanity is inherently fallen. He created the fricking devil.
But, we have a choice. Just like the devil had a choice.
It's a brilliant plan.
But, we have a choice. Just like the devil had a choice.
It's a brilliant plan.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:41 am to LSUZombie
Why was Jesus sent to Earth? To die for our sins right? So what happened to Jesus was inevitable right? Yet people praise the fact he died for our sins.. That was his job.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 2:56 am to SuperSaint
quote:
Everyone has to have a villain in their make believe stories
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:23 pm to epbart
That was a really well-written reply. 
Posted on 3/27/16 at 3:25 pm to wfallstiger
quote:
No, God made provision in the event they fell. Don't forget, there were two trees and only one prohibition
and God let satan in to tempt them with the foreknowledge that they would fall
he's omnipotent.. no way around it mate.
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