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re: Why is Judas vilified?

Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:40 pm to
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127609 posts
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:40 pm to
As a man, Judas had free will. He clearly knew who Jesus Christ was and in the end rejected and betrayed Him. Jesus Christ was the Messiah he needed but not the one he wanted.

As the Son of God, Jesus Christ had foreknowledge. He knew that Judas would betray Him and yet He chose Judas anyway. He gave Judas an opportunity to not sin against Him.

It is that simple.
Posted by Spock's Eyebrow
Member since May 2012
12300 posts
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:43 pm to
quote:

He can see all events that happen, but he cannot control their choices because of free will. He is just the observer. Those decisions have been already made at the one moment in time everything else in the universe happened.



Yeah, but he can't break the fourth wall and tell the mortals what they're going to do, like Jesus did with Peter. If Peter had stayed home and chilled out with some wine, he would have made a liar out of Jesus. If Peter had hung himself beforehand out of horror at Jesus's prediction, he would have made a liar out of Jesus. That's not allowed, so Peter had no choice. He was just a puppet.

Now, if it's all just a puppet show, why make it so convoluted and require blind faith in middle eastern nutjob oral tradition, with the gospels being written by people who never knew Jesus, who lived over 2000 years ago? The stories are indistinguishable from so many others most people dismiss.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127609 posts
Posted on 3/26/16 at 11:46 pm to
quote:

Why did God harden the heart of Pharoah then? Seems like free will has limits. Nebechunezzer ate grass because God gave him a mental illness.
Read Romans 9:14-29. One of the hardest passages in the Bible to understand and apply.
Posted by LeonPhelps
Member since May 2008
8185 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:02 am to
Judas still had free will. Just because Jesus knew he would betray him doesn't mean Judas had no choice. He betrayed the son of God for money. His guilt was fully earned and he is right to be vilified.
Posted by tunechi
Member since Jun 2009
10578 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:23 am to
I struggle with these questions as well. Praying for instance. Why pray if the outcome is already determined?
Posted by epbart
new york city
Member since Mar 2005
3384 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:29 am to
quote:

The man was pre-selected to betray Jesus. Jesus even knew he was going to do it the entire time and while Jesus acted like Judas had free-will, his fate was set.



While God/Jesus may have been aware that Judas would be the disciple that led Jesus' enemies to him, it is a strange choice of words to say he was pre-selected... In general, if some random hero is trying to accomplish a mission and they openly walk into a trap knowing they will lose their life in the fulfillment of that mission, you wouldn't say their enemy was pre-selected despite having foreknowledge of what will happen.

quote:

So why is Judas always referenced as being in Hell? Or as a traitor?


The first question is a good one that leads to a rabbit hole of many questions, imo, as to the nature of the soul and salvation. On the surface, Hell would seem the appropriate realm for a soul that is the agent of the Devil / one who betrays God. But, as you suggest, Judas-- whether or not he knew the outcome of his betrayal would be the murder of Jesus-- grieves over his actions and returns the money. These are signs of repentance. Given that some of Jesus' last words were asking his Father to "forgive them...", I don't find it out of the realm of possibilities that forgiveness was possible to the extent Judas truly sought it. I know many Christians will not agree with this, and the probability of him having committed suicide further dims hope for that... but to God all things are possible and it isn't my place to judge the soul of Judas.

The 2nd question (Why is Judas referenced as a traitor?)... This is straight-forward. Judas was a traitor and that is something that-- religious or not-- is considered dishonorable. There is no context in which this can be spun as a positive. That Jesus is able to provide an example of perfect obedience to the will of his Father and simultaneously maintain perfect compassion for humanity in the face of treachery and mistreatment is independent of the treachery itself. The nobility of Jesus' actions are, in fact, transcendent in contrast to the treacherous behavior he endured. That is the whole point. You don't celebrate evil acts or the men who commit them even if the depths of their darkness make the acts of a good man shine all the brighter. Would you celebrate the drunk driver who kills a child... if that child's parents went on to start an organization like MADD? No, it wouldn't make sense. But you could admire a mother who, instead of sulking, turned her grief into positive action to help others.

But back to Judas... Do we vilify or celebrate him??? I say neither. The answer I see exists in the words of Christ on the cross when he pleaded with God to forgive humanity. Based on that, we should recognize our common humanity with Judas, feel compassion, forgive him and move on.
Posted by tuptiger
Member since Jan 2008
4314 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:25 am to
Yes. We need forgiveness because God created a world where humanity is inherently fallen. He created the fricking devil.

But, we have a choice. Just like the devil had a choice.

It's a brilliant plan.
Posted by OweO
Plaquemine, La
Member since Sep 2009
122527 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:41 am to
Why was Jesus sent to Earth? To die for our sins right? So what happened to Jesus was inevitable right? Yet people praise the fact he died for our sins.. That was his job.
Posted by skinny domino
sebr
Member since Feb 2007
14536 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 2:56 am to
quote:

Everyone has to have a villain in their make believe stories
Posted by LSUZombie
A Cemetery Near You
Member since Apr 2008
29749 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:23 pm to
That was a really well-written reply.
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 3/27/16 at 3:25 pm to
quote:


No, God made provision in the event they fell. Don't forget, there were two trees and only one prohibition



and God let satan in to tempt them with the foreknowledge that they would fall

he's omnipotent.. no way around it mate.
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