re: Why do people think electric cars are somehow better for the environment?

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Wow. We have very different ideas about America, independence and freedom. But that’s ok because in America everyone can have different opinions.

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My view of independence and freedom is that someone should he able to drive whatever type of vehicle they want

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Agreed, and no one is telling you any different.

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and should pay full price for it.

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Assuming this is a knock on tax credits, which is kind of nonsensical on the topic of freedom. You are free to take advantage of the credit, as are all car manufacturers. Do you only dislike tax credits for "green" products, or are you against all tax credits?

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Personally I have no interest in an EV. I want to be able to pull into gas station, fill up in 5 min and go about my business for another 400 Miles. I have 4 vehicles at home. I don’t want the hassle of plugging them in at night and plugging them in at work. I know for sure my wife doesn’t want to fool with that when she gets to work. Next time I pull my boat to the coast and back I don’t want to have to stop on way home to recharge after fishing all day. Or when I go to the camp for the weekend where I don’t have electricity try to figure out how to recharge. I don’t want to maintain several batteries per vehicle times 4. Or next hurricane when electricity is out for few days??

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Then EV's aren't for you yet! Though I'm willing to bet that you could easily get by replacing one of your four vehicles with one, and save on fuel and maintenance costs for the next decade. But of course, it's your choice!


My point, though, is that you (and most of us) are choosing to rely on other countries for your transportation needs. We exercise our freedom to remain non-free. And we are slowing America's progress toward being the leader in one of the fastest-growing industries in the world in the process.


It's one thing to choose to drive whatever you want, but it's another to do as many in this thread do and actively work against progress in the EV industry. The ONLY effect that will have is to hurt America, because the EV industry is going to charge ahead with or without us. We'd be wise to lead the way.

Same reason people believe in Trump, they are gullible

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That might be true now, but supply and demand tells us that as demand for electric energy increases, so will the price.

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On the contrary, since 1960 the demand for electricity has gone up roughly 500%, during that time the average price adjusted cost of electricity has actually gone down.

Again, much of the recharging can be done during off peak hours when there is an excess of generation capability, times when power companies are willing to sell the power at a discount, but few residential customers take advantage of. This could change when demand is higher during off peak but would be realized by few residential consumers.

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And convenience? EV's "refuel" in your fricking garage for christ's sake, it doesn't get much more convenient than that.

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Yeah, over the course of hours. If I need to make an unplanned trip? No running down two blocks to a gas station and filling up in a matter of minutes for you. Seriously, pull the blinders off and try thinking harder.

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Would you do that with a tiny tank of gas?

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Like a cheap Bic lighter? I have yet to hear about anyone having issues. Read this link and try that argument again: LINK

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I see, battery tech can make essentially a quantum leap and you'd shrug it off as "less of a benefit than you think", even though by far the biggest drawback of EV's is their range. Meanwhile ICE's haven't improved substantially in a century, but we should stick with them!

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I've actually stated that the technology would have to make a quantum leap, but you failed to understand that finer point in my discussion. Not only batteries but power generation, residential electrical supplies, and infrastructure would all have to make considerable technological advances to even give EV's a chance to replace the ICE en mass as you envision.

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I did the calculations earlier in the thread to show 2 cars in every household driven the average current milage would only increase residential power consumption by ~30% this is well within current offpeak generation/transmission capability. It was cocktail napkin numbers but show me where I am wrong.

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The "wrong" comes in where you are making the usual assumptions within an ideal framework. During the summer there are already large metropolitan areas that can barely sustain current demand, 30% would be way beyond capacity and that 30% is a conservative estimate.

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You are off on your wiring suggestion. 30kW is 125 amps @ 240V single phase and you can't begin to run that on 6 gauge copper (safely). Depending on the type of cable you will need at least #2 Cu. The issue will be much lower in non-residential areas where 3ph 480v is more prevalent. A 50 amp (12kW) 240v outlet should be too expensive in most homes, especially if the load center is in the garage. It would require 6/3 cable but that is about $2 a by the foot retail and around .70 in bulk.

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No, I said "runs" for a reason. I just did an install of a 36kW tankless water heater for a commercial customer and that was 4x 8/3 on 40A breakers. 8/3 is over $3/foot retail and a spool is still $2+/foot.

First of all, why do both cars have to be charged at the same time?

So many people talking without direct experience.

I plug my car in every night.

It is on a 50 amp breaker pumping 240v at 40 amps.

Yes a 6/3 cable was required.

Not understanding what the issue is? This is less then a home with 2 separate 4 ton HVAC units running on two 60 amp breakers correct?

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Yeah, over the course of hours. If I need to make an unplanned trip? No running down two blocks to a gas station and filling up in a matter of minutes for you. Seriously, pull the blinders off and try thinking harder.

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You should do some research.

My car gets more miles per charge then your car does on a full tank, I'd wager.

Secondly it takes you 10 minutes to run to get some gas. Do you know that the superchargers pump 72amps and 440v? Charges well over 200 miles per hour at that rate. In 10 minutes I can add about 40 miles. You taking a lot of unplanned 40+ mile trips?

Lastly, the car is smart. It KNOWS where the charging stations are and will reduce power as needed to ensure you never get stranded.

Talk about thinking harder, how many times do you get gas a week? Twice? so a minimum of 20 minutes a week to refuel? I'm at zero. Literally zero. You are wasting 18 hours of your life every year sitting at a gas station, while I'm at zero. 18 hours --- per year.... I can almost get to New York City in that time.

And you are talking about an unplanned trip? Do you make 18 hours worth of those every year???

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Yeah, over the course of hours.

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It's not as if you're standing there the whole time. It takes a couple seconds to plug in. Who cares how long it takes as long as it's charged by morning?

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No running down two blocks to a gas station and filling up in a matter of minutes for you. Seriously, pull the blinders off and try thinking harder.

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Blinders? I said by far the biggest knock on EV's is the range. A poster suggested a solution for that, and you went off about how long it would take to charge and the wiring requirements, so it's not really all that great. You're trying too hard.

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Like a cheap Bic lighter?

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No, not at all like a cheap Bic lighter. Butane is a gas at room temp, if a small container leaks no big deal. We were clearly talking about the safety of gasoline and diesel, so why are you talking about butane?

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Read this link and try that argument again: LINK

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I know, it's big news when a lithium battery catches fire in someone's pocket. Know why? Because it's so fricking rare. Contrast that to vehicle fires, and only those that start in the fuel tank or fuel lines. That happens on average over 8 times a day. Are you sure you want to continue this argument that liquid fuels are safer than batteries?

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I've actually stated that the technology would have to make a quantum leap, but you failed to understand that finer point in my discussion. Not only batteries but power generation, residential electrical supplies, and infrastructure would all have to make considerable technological advances to even give EV's a chance to replace the ICE en mass as you envision.

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There are no "considerable technological advances" required for power generation or infrastructure to handle EV's en masse. If EVERY SINGLE HOME in America switched to EV's overnight, we would probably see a 25-50% increase in RESIDENTIAL energy consumption. And considering most of that increase would be during off-peak hours, our current capacity and infrastructure might be able to handle that right now. Given that it will likely take decades for everyone to switch, I'm more than sure we won't be dealing with brownouts all the time.

Power generation capacity might need to be increased, as well as infrastructure in some places and residential energy supplies will need work or upgrades, but there are no technological advances required. Today's tech is more than capable. Energy storage is the only area where "considerable" technological advances are needed to fill all needs, but plenty of people are getting by even with today's tech.

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Talk about thinking harder, how many times do you get gas a week? Twice? so a minimum of 20 minutes a week to refuel? I'm at zero. Literally zero. You are wasting 18 hours of your life every year sitting at a gas station, while I'm at zero. 18 hours --- per year

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Come on, those are the most convenient 18 hours of his year!