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re: What are your thoughts on the Vietnam war?
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:26 am to NATidefan
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:26 am to NATidefan
quote:
Been watching Vietnam in HD on netflix... And I'm still wondering if we had a good reason to be in this war.
Great documentary. I read Letters from Vietnam after that.
Do you think it helped slow/control the spread of communism? Maybe. showed we ain't scared to go frick shite up anywhere vs anyone
Do you think it was a complete waste of American lives?
hmmm hard to argue the waste but % I am not sure.
Do you think there was some financial reason behind the war for the US? No.
Do you think the media hindered the US from having success in the war? Yes.
Do you think the war made any difference at all in the world we live in today? I think it paved the way to the rapid response capabilities and the on-the-job experience of many of those vets made the US military stronger and the world safer.
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Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:26 am to htran90
quote:
I can become a doctor and not bring shame to my family
Thanks to your parents, and congrats to you!
US intentions were good.
But, think about this: what did the current govt of Vietnam gain? China is their adversary. The USA is their most coveted trading partner, because their economy desperately needs trade. The US market for things like household furniture is wide open to Vietnam factories.
If North Vietnam had never fought and accepted a free South Vietnam, both North and South Vietnam today would be better off.
IMHO, we should today note that the communist government won very little -- and when you think of their human costs, they lost more than they won.
This post was edited on 8/10/15 at 9:27 am
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:32 am to NATidefan
Personally, I think it was a mistake. My dad spent 1969 over there, but never talks about it. I should probably sit down with him and force him to tell me his thoughts.
I do find it ironic that the leading voices in the neverending push to send US troops to the middle east seem to always be guys who pussed out of service in Vietnam.
I do find it ironic that the leading voices in the neverending push to send US troops to the middle east seem to always be guys who pussed out of service in Vietnam.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:45 am to NATidefan
Do you think it helped slow/control the spread of communism? Maybe
Do you think it was a complete waste of American lives? Maybe
Do you think there was some financial reason behind the war for the US? No
Do you think the media hindered the US from having success in the war? Yes
Do you think the war made any difference at all in the world we live in today? Yes
Do you think it was a complete waste of American lives? Maybe
Do you think there was some financial reason behind the war for the US? No
Do you think the media hindered the US from having success in the war? Yes
Do you think the war made any difference at all in the world we live in today? Yes
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:46 am to NATidefan
quote:
Do you think it helped slow/control the spread of communism?
Do you think it was a complete waste of American lives?
Not a complete waste. Our armed forces learned some hard lessons paid for in blood, but, the lessons were put to good use. The US military got better at its craft from these lessons.
Do you think there was some financial reason behind the war for the US?
No. The USA today trades with Vietnam, and the Vietnamese economy desperately needs the US market. This would have been true had North Vietnam never chosen to invade the South.
Do you think the media hindered the US from having success in the war?
Yes. For example, the 1968 communist Tet Offensive was a military defeat for them. Somehow, it turned into a psychological defeat for the USA. The media told the US electorate that Tet was a US defeat and the US electorate swallowed it whole.
Do you think the war made any difference at all in the world we live in today?
I prefer to focus on conditions in today's united communist Vietnam to answer this question.
IMHO, they are worse off than had they chosen peace from the start. Why? Because China is now Vietnam's territorial adversary and chief trade competition for US markets. Russia is certainly uninterested in helping VN.
Today's Vietnamese economy desperately needs to trade in the US market. They could have had this trade 50 years ago, had they chosen a peaceful path -- AND they would have avoided the severe military casualties that they took in the war. The US military killed millions of their young soldiers, and Vietnam is worse off today for that.
North Vietnam was a bamboozled stooge of Red China and Soviet Russia. The Soviets abandoned North Vietnam in 1972 when President Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev reached Detente. Red China attacked Vietnam in 1979! in a border war !
So, communist Vietnam got PLAYED, and used up. Maybe one day they will have to admit that their leadership was their own worst enemy, NOT the USA.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 9:54 am to NATidefan
quote:
it was a complete waste of American lives
We backed the French colonialists against Ho Chi Minh, then doubled down in backing the wrong horse again in the unfathomably corrupt and unpopular Southern regime. Now the communists we fought have a semi-market economy and are our pals in containing Chinese expansion. We'll probably have bases there before long.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 10:22 am to NATidefan
the real problem with the war was the draft.
If there wasn't a draft, then the War would have been engaged, or not engaged, more democratically, which is essentially for most of the military actions where we aren't attacked.
If there wasn't a draft, then the War would have been engaged, or not engaged, more democratically, which is essentially for most of the military actions where we aren't attacked.
This post was edited on 8/10/15 at 10:23 am
Posted on 8/10/15 at 10:30 am to NATidefan
What eroded the British empire (the greatest the world has ever seen) was fighting wars on foreign soils. You can only borrow so much money. Can't believe we didn't learn that lesson.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 10:38 am to NATidefan
Synopsis - 1.US bombed and has NV on the ropes
2. Liberals win the day and US agrees to peace treaty
3. Peace treaty signed, NV ignores and invades SV.
4. US (because of liberal whackos), does nothing
5. Millions of south viet are ultimately killed and at least 7 million Cambodians are tortured to death.
6. good job liberals!!
2. Liberals win the day and US agrees to peace treaty
3. Peace treaty signed, NV ignores and invades SV.
4. US (because of liberal whackos), does nothing
5. Millions of south viet are ultimately killed and at least 7 million Cambodians are tortured to death.
6. good job liberals!!
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:14 am to TX Tiger
quote:
Can you give me one example where we were minding our own business and incurred "their" problem?
9-11? Pearl Harbor?
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:27 am to lsucoonass
quote:
First, we never "lost".
Amen. Our military won just about every battle, but our decision makers in the US failed.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:30 am to NATidefan
quote:
Do you think it helped slow/control the spread of communism? no. Indirectly perhaps, but I don't believe our military directly 'controlled' communism
Do you think it was a complete waste of American lives? yes
Do you think there was some financial reason behind the war for the US? no, just stupid government
Do you think the media hindered the US from having success in the war? definitely
Do you think the war made any difference at all in the world we live in today? of course
This post was edited on 8/10/15 at 11:36 am
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:32 am to Ostrich
quote:
We underestimated the enemy and overestimated the effectiveness of our air power. We were unprepared to fight in the jungle against an invisible enemy.
As another posted responded previously, this is fundamentally not correct.
The real issue was we were not "committed" to winning a war. Had we been politically committed to winning this fight we would have dominated. This lack of political will is part (if not all) of the reason for the demoralized troops and what not...
If we underestimated anything it was the folly of sending our troops in to fight the enemy with no intention of defeating the enemy.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:35 am to NATidefan
The media was way too involved in Vietnam and has been too involved in all wars since then. These days the army fights the enemy abroad and public opinion at home.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:37 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
The protests spawned some good music.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 11:45 am to ssgrice
quote:
Amen. Our military won just about every battle, but our decision makers in the US failed.
A prime example of this is the Tet Offensive. It's gone down in history as the "turning point" of the war where it became "apparent" that the U.S. could not win the war. This is one of the biggest lies ever told to the American people. The truth of the matter is the Tet Offensive was one of the most lopsided battles in the history of modern warfare. The North committed just about everything they had to their offensive. And when it was all said and done the US. & South Vietnamese forces had inflicted on the North complete and total defeat.
I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head but I believe it was something like 10 infantry divisions the North committed to the offensive. Of those ten divisions, nine had to be struck from the battle order after Tet because they'd been virtually wiped out. As for the Viet Cong, they were decimated. After Tet the communists had to fill out the Viet Cong battalions with conscripts from the North and even then it took years before the Viet Cong were anything resembling a coherent military force.
The truth of Tet is that the North was utterly defeated, their army left in shambles, and they achieved exactly zero of their strategic goals. It was a disaster for them. Luckily for them though they had the American media there to feed the American public the lie that this was the "turning point" of the war. What the media did in Vietnam, especially when it comes to the Tet Offensive, is nothing short of treason. They were no different than Tokyo Rose from WWII, just a propaganda arm of the enemy.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 12:44 pm to NATidefan
quote:
This used to be my thought, but today sometimes I wonder if we choose to play in away games so we don't have to play home games.
This was part of the reasoning. The Cold War was in full effect. We had just had the Cuban missle crises and the failed bay of pigs. If we would have allowed South Vietnam to fall with zero assistance, there is no telling how far China and Russia would have continued on.
The media, libs(flower power pukes), and home grown commies had massive influence in our loss. The imaginary DMZ, lack of infil of the north and years where we didn't go into Cambodia or Laos to cut off the Ho Chi Minh trail was all to appease our soft hearts....at 1st. Eventually it was used as negotiating power by the north, along with the fricking shape of the negotiating table.
Could we have won, yes. Unlike the French, we learned how to fight them with their small war tactics(see LRP or LRRP).
The POS who spit or worse on our returning soldiers deserve a special place in hell, regardless if you support the war - you support your warriors.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 12:58 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Why fight a war you're not willing to win?
From someone who spent a year there, you nailed it.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 1:15 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Been watching Vietnam in HD on netflix
Stopped there. That is your issue, your source of information.
Dig a little deeper than NetFlix.
Posted on 8/10/15 at 1:18 pm to NATidefan
When I was in the army my battle buddy was a former officer in the south Vietnam army. He got out of Vietnam on a shrimp boat. Pretty cool guy and sad he lost his whole family and have to leave his country fighting for freedom. A lot of people under and over him were captured and slaughtered.
That conflict was fought by south Vietnam and French for years before we got in it.
He said the North went in towns and said the white man killer your grandfather, daddy, and your family.
Back then to get to remote villages to tell these people the truth was hard. His job was to go in these towns and tell the people the truth that the north was killing them.
It was an uphill battle which we lost a lot of people when propaganda was against us along with the North being well entrenched in the country.
Our guys had the cards stacked against them.
That conflict was fought by south Vietnam and French for years before we got in it.
He said the North went in towns and said the white man killer your grandfather, daddy, and your family.
Back then to get to remote villages to tell these people the truth was hard. His job was to go in these towns and tell the people the truth that the north was killing them.
It was an uphill battle which we lost a lot of people when propaganda was against us along with the North being well entrenched in the country.
Our guys had the cards stacked against them.
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