re: Tulsa cop charged with first-degree manslaughter

Well those pictures are pretty compelling, will you at least admit the windows were down at this point? We can argue if the officer felt deadly force was needed later.

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Understatement of the year.

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Well, I have been consistent that I have problems with an unarmed man with a stalled car losing his life in an encounter with police. I cannot ignore that.

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Accident or not, she took a life

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I don't think "accident" is going to apply here. Some reports are saying that she fired roughly simultaneous with another officer firing a taser. It's going to come down to both of them interpreting his actions around the car as threatening.

And they reportedly found PCP in the car, which might have accounted for the decedent's reportedly non-compliant behavior.

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That much is not debatable.

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Correct. I disagree with your postulation of "accident" - but the man is dead, regardless.

That's not the question, though. The question is - was the officer acting reasonably when she fired every shot. If his actions could reasonably be interpreted as a threatening gesture, she's certainly not going to be convicted of any crime - hell, it will be hard to fire her under those circumstances. The grand jury may not even indict based on the results of the investigation.

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What bothers me is how police use their personal choice to accept a relatively stressful, and at times dangerous, job as an excuse for their poor behavior.

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And that is true in many circumstances. It may be true here. I just don't think we know yet. I mean, this isn't nearly as cut and dried as things like North Charleston, Antoinette Frank or other examples of police conduct that is clearly criminal. This is going to be in a gray area, even if the investigation ultimately concludes wrongdoing, either policy or legal breaches.

From what I've seen I don't think this is a criminal shoot. Probably should lose her job though. Given we haven't seen much of the evidence.

In my opinion though and I'd be interested in hearing law enforcement POV, is they never should of allowed him to go back to his vehicle. He was what 20 ft away at one point, they should of told him to stop or they were going to taser him before he got there. The vehicle added multiple elements of complication to the situation.

ETA: In my opinion guy has his hands up and starts walking away from you towards his vehicle not complying, that is a good indication things are headed in the wrong direction.

I want to see photos taken at the scene on the ground by a police photographer. Where are those photos? I'm sure they exist.

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Autopsy report: Terence Crutcher had PCP in his system when he died

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Shocked I tell you. Shocked.

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In my opinion though and I'd be interested in hearing law enforcement POV, is they should never have allowed him to go back to his vehicle. He was what 20 ft away at one point, they should have told him to stop or they were going to taser him before he got there. The vehicle added multiple elements of complication to the situation.

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I'll comment on this generally and not apply it to this individual scenario.

Given a standoff, an officer wants to keep the person away from any unknown. A vehicle is huge tactical unknown in regards to weapons, other people, an avenue for escape etc. In the event of a gunfight, a vehicle becomes concealment and in some ways cover. Bottom line, never allow someone to get back to a vehicle or any other type of "unknown".

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In my opinion guy has his hands up and starts walking away from you towards his vehicle not complying,

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Correct. It can also be demonstrated as a way of buying time at worst, and at best a modern trend of suspects in the video age. For example, people yelling, I'm not resisting!" while actively fighting an officer.

The individual facts and individual officer perceptions will be key here.

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That has zero relevancy to the fact that she shot him in the back while he had his hands up.

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Is it relevant to the fact that he was acting strange, making statements about his car blowing up and failing to follow orders/acting like he might have a weapon?

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That has zero relevancy to the fact that she shot him in the back while he had his hands up.

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thats not what happened and you know it......


It also does back up the officers story that he was acting strange was disobeying orders

You need to regulate your speech patterns. Slow down and think before you type.

Probably what you meant to say was that the fact that PCP was in his system is not sufficient to prove it was a lawful and justified shooting and it doesn't explain the officer shooting the guy in the back.

See, that's a good and valid point. No one would disagree with you and in fact it is germane to the discussion. The words that you hurriedly typed only invite opposition because they are inaccurate even though the intent was probably correct.

The fact that the victim was high on PCP certainly is a salient point and can be used by the cop's defense attorney to bolster the cops statements about her perception of the victim's erradic and otherwise irrational behavior and non-compliance.

He doesn't think, though it's hard to think when you're a racist like he is..