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Message
re: Those against gay marriage- you're dumb (long)
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:49 pm to Moustache
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:49 pm to Moustache
Exactly, the state promotes (or should promote) social constructs that benefit us as a society. Studies continue to show (not religious ones either) a clear psychological benefit to children being raised in a household with a mother and a father rather than two same-sex parents. See here: LINK
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Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:49 pm to MSMHater
quote:No need to belittle Jenner, either. All that is is a turd for you to throw. It serves no purpose.
But then there are the Kaitlyn/Bruce Jenners
quote:...willingly provided by you.
others that use their sexuality for attention
quote:This can move the needle only if you provide the attention that you think they seek. You're providing it now, in fact.
They seek attention for the sake of attention
quote:Not for you to decide.
not for activism
quote:Good for them.
Media has also played a role in exploiting gay america for ratings and financial gain, which has also increased self promotion based on sexuality.
quote:I agree.
But I admit, my examples are the outliers, not the norm.
One truth we all seem to avoid in this dialogue is that living a life devoid of all things gay is very easy to do. All you have to do is not be fixated on two guys fricking.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:51 pm to ballscaster
Yeah, but how awesome is this?
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:53 pm to Moustache
quote:
Sure, there's no "victim" like the others, which is why I am strongly against countries like Russia and the ME punishing homosexuality by law.
As far as why it's immoral, it always denies a child a father or a mother. It destroys the familial construct of society, among many things, and we see the result. Look at the AA community as to how bad things get with a poor family construct. Look towards the lower demographics as to how bad things get with no family construct. By legalizing same-sex marriage, the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval. It's morally wrong to force public people to accept something against their religious beliefs, IMO. We already see business owners being forced to provide goods and services when we should let the free market decide that. You're forcing business owners to work to provide a service against their will. That is not moral, my friend.
Another reason the government has a compelling interest in providing benefits to unions that are the only natural way to produce the next generation. The government need not provide benefits to a union that categorically can not produce a future citizen and tax payer.
As far as why it's immoral,
I understand your line of thinking but familial contructs will not be destroyed by gay marriage. It will represent such a small fraction of marriages and among them an even smaller fraction will adopt or have a child through a surrogate. The acceptability of divorce and the pervasive selfishness in our culture is imo what is destroying the nuclear family construct not two people that love each that want to get married that happen to be the same sex.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:55 pm to SEClint
It's bullshite that I have to wait until August to get Nailz.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:55 pm to ThuperThumpin
Not a lot of gay couples get kids and the success rate of those kids is really fricking high.
So the "destroying the family and our kids will suffer" people need to look in the mirror.
So the "destroying the family and our kids will suffer" people need to look in the mirror.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:56 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
The acceptability of divorce and the pervasive selfishness in our culture is imo what is destroying the nuclear family construct not two people that love each that want to get married that happen to be the same sex.
I agree divorce is destructive as well. However, in many cases the child still has a father or a mother. Not so in same-sex marriages.
As far as the people who hate or degrade homosexuals, they are despicable. I believe it is possible some people are born with same sex attractions (debatable whether it is a mental illness), but I also believe it is sinful for them to act upon those feelings.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:57 pm to ballscaster
Would have been July, but there was no chance of him being released early for good behavior.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:57 pm to Moustache
But it's only immoral if you have religious beliefs that strictly go against homosexuality. It's a very grey area topic in morality because inherently there is nothing wrong with the act, but if you're religious, then everything is wrong with the act.
As far as family structure- I suppose that's a point, another poster linked some studies. But we don't ban anyone else from marriage on the basis that the nature of their family structure could be burdensome for the future child. Being poor, living in a bad area, being a former convict doesn't negate you from the right to marriage even though it undoubtedly would hinder the healthy growth of a child. Slippery slope when we ban marriage on the basis of the quality of life a child will have in said family.
As far as family structure- I suppose that's a point, another poster linked some studies. But we don't ban anyone else from marriage on the basis that the nature of their family structure could be burdensome for the future child. Being poor, living in a bad area, being a former convict doesn't negate you from the right to marriage even though it undoubtedly would hinder the healthy growth of a child. Slippery slope when we ban marriage on the basis of the quality of life a child will have in said family.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:58 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
The state adopted the word but uses it differently. There is no religious rhetoric in state marriage documents. Its a tax thing. That's all gay people want.
So, you would support the concept of a civil union? I think you would get a large consensus of Americans that would support that.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:59 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Not a lot of gay couples get kids and the success rate of those kids is really fricking high.
Good point.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:59 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Not a lot of gay couples get kids and the success rate of those kids is really fricking high.
link? Surely we don't have enough data or time to draw any conclusions about that.
Frankly, I can't support it due to my religion, but I don't know that I would actively vote against it either. As long as it isn't forcing my church to perform gay marriages or businesses to provide services and good for gay marriages, then I don't have much of a problem with them. Well, except for when pride week or whatever comes to Disney or to town there's always a guy in assless chaps, plenty of PDA, and just all around sexual debauchery. Usually at least one guy with his dick out. That's pretty pathetic and shouldn't be done in public.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 3:59 pm to Tigerfan56
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/8/20 at 10:46 am
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:00 pm to ballscaster
quote:
o need to belittle Jenner, either. All that is is a turd for you to throw. It serves no purpose.
Sure it does. It's an example of self promotion and media exploitation under the guise of nothing but ones sexuality...which you said shouldn't be important enough to garner peoples attention. And I'm not belittling her, just calling her out for being an attention whore, which would seem to be difficult to argue against.
quote:
...willingly provided by you.
quote:
This can move the needle only if you provide the attention that you think they seek. You're providing it now, in fact.
Now you're being obtuse. How many viewers did the Jenner interview get? I wasn't one of them, yet it would have been impossible for me not to notice b/c of the press it received. I would need earplugs, a blindfold, and no internet connection not to notice the story.
quote:
One truth we all seem to avoid in this dialogue is that living a life devoid of all things gay is very easy to do. All you have to do is not be fixated on two guys fricking.
I agree. But I'm not trying to live a life "devoid of gay". I generally like the many gay acquaintances I have, both male and female. And their bedroom activity is not something I ever even consider.
This post was edited on 6/12/15 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:01 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:
Slippery slope when we ban marriage on the basis of the quality of life a child will have in said family.
Fair point, but it's also a slippery slope to allow gay marriage too in that the tax nightmare of polygamy and bestality is next on the docket.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:01 pm to Moustache
quote:
As a Catholic, I cannot possibly allow the positive sanctioning of gravely immoral behavior. And that's what this is. It's the state supporting immoral behavior.
quote:
Ultimately, I wish there was no such thing as state sponsored or secular marriage
Personally, the quoted above statements are two of the things I disagree with the most.
I do not see being gay as an immoral act. In my opinion, is something that is natural and cannot be helped. There are gay animals in nature. Did they consciously decide to be gay? No. Nor did the majority of people who are gay choose to be. Why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay? Think about it. Gay people are disadvantaged because they are looked down upon, and sometimes are even looked at as second-class citizens. THAT is immoral. Bigotry.
I won't go into the religious aspect of marriage because that is not the intention of this thread.
Also.. OP, you're a dickhead. You embarrass gay marriage supporters everywhere and hurt the image.
This post was edited on 6/12/15 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:04 pm to Moustache
quote:
Fair point, but it's also a slippery slope to allow gay marriage too in that the tax nightmare of polygamy and bestality is next on the docket.
I can see this with polygamy, and I don't doubt that some crazy person might try with an animal. But as an animal cannot consent to anything, I think that's quite a stretch to think it ever becomes a formidable issue. Polygamy, that will definitely be a real issue at hand some day.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:06 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
In my opinion, is something that is natural and cannot be helped. There are gay animals in nature. Did they consciously decide to be gay? No. Nor did the majority of people who are gay choose to be. Why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay? Think about it. Gay people are disadvantaged because they are looked down upon, and sometimes are even looked at as second-class citizens. THAT is immoral. Bigotry.
I agree 100%. I believe that it is possible that some people are born or acquire a mental condition that causes unnatural attraction to the same sex. The Catholic church does not dispute this. they are called to live a life of chastity and there are plenty of churches willing to help. It isn't an easy cross to bear, but we are all born with our own sins we struggle with. Unfortunately, the homosexuals get ostracized and abused the most IMO.
It is immoral to look down on them and view them as less dignified than yourself. It doesn't mean I condone the actual sex acts or marriage because I believe it's a mortal sin. However, I don't view them any differently than I would an adulterer, a divorced and remarried person, or any other sin.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:06 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
Why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay? Think about it. Gay people are disadvantaged because they are looked down upon, and sometimes are even looked at as second-class citizens. THAT is immoral.
This is the silliest statement and argument that people throw out. People CHOOSE to do things all the time that make them frowned upon. You ever see those goths? People with tattoos all over their face and body? Or any of the counter culture people. It happens all the time.
To insinuate people never choose to go against cultural norms even when they are disadvantaged is just silly.
Posted on 6/12/15 at 4:09 pm to Festus
quote:
This is the silliest statement and argument that people throw out. People CHOOSE to do things all the time that make them frowned upon. You ever see those goths? People with tattoos all over their face and body? Or any of the counter culture people. It happens all the time.
To insinuate people never choose to go against cultural norms even when they are disadvantaged is just silly.
It IS a bad argument. However, I have no doubt that some choose it as a fad and some are truly attracted to same sex because they have a mental illness they were born with.
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