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Started By
Message
re: There should be little sympathy for college graduates struggling to earn a livable wage
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:28 am to StringedInstruments
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:28 am to StringedInstruments
Cheating in college is good exercise for them which will serve them well when they enter business or the government.
0
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:29 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
You're missing the point. You're advocating for Gen Z and younger millennials because they should deserve a higher starting wage because they have a college degree.
Would you do the same for someone flipping burgers at a McDonald's?
I would say that the burger flipper might have better work ethic and deserve a higher wage than the college grad who cheated their way through school while avoiding any bit of work ethic in the educational venture they paid for.
I would say that both of you are missing the point.
And I see young people (and some older people too) make this mistake ALL THE TIME.
Like Clint Eastwood famously said in Unforgiven, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
No one gets paid what they "deserve." That literally has nothing to do with it.
Labor is a commodity. People get paid what the market dictates, which is a combination of demand and supply and availability of substitute goods/services.
quote:
Asking $20/hr for a degree holder is nuts. And you are just as delusional if you agree with this starting wage.
Not if that's what the market dictates it's not nuts. Expecting anything different is what's nuts.
An employer does not determine a salary for you based on what it would take for you to buy a home and a new vehicle (interesting that the vehicle has to be 'new'). They are not obligated to meet your financial needs. You do not "deserve" a certain salary because of your financial needs or because you have a college degree.
For one thing, college degrees have obviously become a dime a dozen, so the market has been flooded with too many people who have them. That overabundance of supply dilutes wages, as supply now exceeds demand.
For another thing, according to the article and my own experience as an employer, the current student is required to do very little and learn very little to earn the degree in the first place. So exactly why is a prospective employee with a college degree supposed to be so valuable if they are neither rare nor accomplished?
Personally I look for people WITHOUT a college degree. They aren't nearly as entitled in 2024.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:34 am to TigerDeacon
quote:
Your average 25 year old and under can't even talk on the phone. You ask them to call someone and the typical response "what do I say?".
This is 100% true.
My wife works with graduate students in a clinical setting who have to call and confirm appointments with patients. They are terrified to make a phone call. The faculty has to write out a script for them to read just to make an appointment confirmation call that consists of no more than, "Hi, Mr. Smith? This is Betty from XYZ University ABC Clinic, just reminding you of your appointment with us tomorrow at 9:00. We look forward to seeing you then."
They can't do that without a script to read and they near panic when told they need to make the calls.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:34 am to StringedInstruments
social media and the internet are a genie that modern society can’t/won’t be able to put back in the bottle.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:35 am to el Gaucho
did you ever think they didnt want a crook and a liar for president?
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:35 am to JasonDBlaha
quote:
Students have been doing this since the pandemic
Since wayy before that.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:36 am to sta4ever
quote:
Sounds to me like students and younger people have evolved and have adapted to the modern world. Professors and education still have not.
That's like saying that the 70%+ of the American population that are overweight or obese have "adapted" to modern processed food consumption while the normal weight people have not.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:36 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
60% of students acknowledged cheating most of the time, while 30% admitted to cheating at least once during an online exam.
It's better to cheat than repeat.
When in doubt, let your eyes roam about.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:37 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
d. The class of Gen Z, born in the iPhone age is struggling to read and comprehend long passages. They may be distracted by a barrage of social media
I've been saying this for a while now: smart phones and social media are awful for young people trying to learn, and critically think. Imagine trying to figure out an arithmetic homework problem and having your phone light up every 10 seconds with notifications. Being able to google everything makes people less-creative, less-interested, and lazier. It is not conducive to learning and thinking at all. Knowing is different than thinking and applying. It is seriously stunting young folks'(and middle-aged, and old folks' if we are being serious) brains.
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 9:40 am
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:39 am to StringedInstruments
“If you aren't cheating you aren't trying hard enough”- Chicago Cubs first basemen, Mark Grace.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:43 am to coffeesmeller
quote:
did you ever think they didnt want a crook and a liar for president?
We didn’t get to choose Kamala the government installed her illegally
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:44 am to StringedInstruments
This goes as far back to basics not being taught in elementary school. When my youngest was getting basics of writing down, she was struggling with spacing between letters, between words, placement on the lines, etc. I told the teacher at a conference that we were working on, and asked what are they doing in the classroom and what can I do further to help. The teacher said they don't cover that at all anymore, it's not important since everything is going digital with phones, tablets, computers, etc. This isn’t the exact issue in the OP, but if they're cutting out understanding of important basics with writing, I'm sure other things leading to the issue in OP were also cut.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:44 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
No one gets paid what they "deserve." That literally has nothing to do with it.
I never said that. My point was a redirection for those who imply entitled livelihoods based on college degrees. You could even see it early in the thread: someone read through my OP and reflexively responded about the cost of housing not being fair as the problem for the younger generation.
I would say it doesn't matter if it's fair or not if those earning college degrees have cheated their way through. I do mean a complex, malleable definition of cheating. They cheated themselves by cheating, not going to class, spending more focus and effort on social media, refusing to pay attention in class, etc.
quote:
An employer does not determine a salary for you based on what it would take for you to buy a home and a new vehicle (interesting that the vehicle has to be 'new'). They are not obligated to meet your financial needs. You do not "deserve" a certain salary because of your financial needs or because you have a college degree.
Exactly. And colleges are certainly at fault for graduating these types of students and not holding them to high expectations. However, at some point, the actual person needs to be held accountable because in the long run, their efforts will determine the kind of life they live.
We seem to have a formed a society that buys into everything being externally influenced. An "external locus of control." College students aren't prepared for the work force, and it's the college's fault. Graduates can't afford a house, and it's the government's fault. Maybe it's their fault? Maybe it's just them that needs some of the blame for their woes.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:45 am to StringedInstruments
Says the uneducated twerp
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:45 am to Loup
quote:
Since wayy before that.
Yep. It might be in one of my links or maybe it was a different article I read, but the article said the problems became problems starting around 2017. Covid sent it all into overdrive.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:47 am to pbro62
I don't have sympathy for any of these little punks.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:48 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
I never said that.
Yes, you did. You said that the McDonald's worker deserved more than the college graduate. Go back and read it again.
I understand that that was not your overall point, but yes, you did say that.
quote:
I would say that the burger flipper might have better work ethic and deserve a higher wage than the college grad
We agree on the substance of your argument.
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 9:49 am
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:50 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Yes, you did. You said that the McDonald's worker deserved more than the college graduate. Go back and read it again.
I understand that that was not your overall point, but yes, you did say that.
Dude...it's just a thought exercise in response to the guy saying college graduates deserve better wages for current housing prices. It's not a claim.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:53 am to Mushroom1968
quote:
My biggest laugh is young people say, "Unless we want to live in ghettos or rural, we can't afford a house." When 30 years ago, after HS, all of the people I knew and myself lived in the ghettos or out in the country to afford a house. Wife and I were damn near 30 before we moved to a "decent" area.
So thirty years ago you could afford a house after high school? Must’ve been nice.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 9:55 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Dude...it's just a thought exercise in response to the guy saying college graduates deserve better wages for current housing prices. It's not a claim.
Whatever.
You said it, I responded to it, you claimed you never said it, I proved that you did.
Do you really want to keep chirping on this?
EDIT: If your stance now is that it should have been obvious to me that you didn't really mean it but were conceding the point to the person you were replying to for the sake of argument, my stance back to you is that it should have been equally obvious to you that I was mostly responding to him and not you.
This post was edited on 9/11/24 at 9:57 am
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