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re: The Will of a Southerner to a roaring Confederacy victory - The Battle of Chancellorsville

Posted on 1/24/21 at 3:46 pm to
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26730 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 3:46 pm to
The whole stupid thing could have and should have been avoided to begin with. Of course we have hindsight, but if some of us could go back to the late 1850s and show them the cost of what they were about to do, what do you think the solution should have been?

Even as late as during the war, the South could have won it right after the Emancipation Proclamation with one simple move. Get the liberals in England, with the promise of repayment using Southern Cotton, to buy the slaves Freedom.

Issue your own Emancipation Proclamation, and Lincoln loses the high ground. War over, Strike up the band, play Dixie.
Posted by cajunbama
Metairie
Member since Jan 2007
35245 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:00 pm to
Let it go.
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26730 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:12 pm to
Kind of hard to do that when you have people in Congress still litigating slavery today and wanting to be paid for it.
Posted by CedarChest
South of Mejico
Member since Jun 2020
2829 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:32 pm to
Yes, our men won that particular battle, but because the greatest calvary officer that ever walked the face of the earth, Stonewall Jackson, was wounded accidentally by his own men in that very battle, and later died, the war was lost. It's my opinion that if Lee had listened to Jackson and went straight for DC in the aftermath of First Manassus, the Feds would have given up, as the war was very unpopular in most localities in Yankee land and there would have been too much pressure on Lincoln to call it a day and seek an armistice of some sort. As the war dragged on it became a war of attrition and no way our brave and heroic men in gray were going to win that type of war. I was in Dijon France one time, and I had a French army officer there tell me that he thought Stonewall Jackson was the greatest battlefield commander in the history of the world, and I don't disagree. When he was removed from the picture it pretty much sealed the fate of the Confederacy.
This post was edited on 1/24/21 at 4:51 pm
Posted by tigersownall
Thibodaux
Member since Sep 2011
17020 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:43 pm to
What kind of Pussy downvoted this?
Posted by lepdagod
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
6106 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:47 pm to
Ole boy a traitor to the USA...
Posted by lepdagod
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
6106 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:52 pm to
quote:

This is an asinine term to describe the men who fought for the Confederacy. Your average Confederate soldier grew up on rural, isolated farmland. They would have had zero concept or interaction with any federal installation or agency save maybe the mail. In my area, the nearest federal building would have been the courthouse in Florence, which was 45 miles away. The very concept of a unified, centralized United States was alien to them. Of course they'd fight for their states over some foreign notion of Union with people they'd never met and places they'd never been.


This some bullshite ... the average Southerner wasn’t unaware of the United States being one country... sad excuse to make for a group of traitors
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:57 pm to
quote:

the average Southerner wasn’t unaware of the United States being one country.


The average person was loyal to their State or territory, not over the USA. It's a fairly well known concept and if you ever decide to pursue your education beyond 12th, you'll learn about it.

The civil war itself actually changed the union of states into a larger, more powerful central government.
Posted by OweO
Plaquemine, La
Member since Sep 2009
122197 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

You say he understood what it took to win. What it took was spending lives. I call that butchery.



To be fair, like someone said, they fought how war was fought then. When your goal is to win a war, especially during those times (lack of technology, etc) it wasn't about saving as many lives as possible.

What I am saying is, the mindset was different. It seems unthinkable today, but you have to consider the times.
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26730 posts
Posted on 1/24/21 at 10:24 pm to
It isn't quite that simple. Grant had regrets for that day. It wasn't so much the lack of technology as it was the fact that tactics had not caught up to the technology of the day. They fought with 1860's tech with early 1800's tactics

Weapons were more accurate and could be fired at longer ranges than in Napoleon's day.You started seeing some breechloaders and even repeating rifles(Spencers) Artillery was more accurate longer ranged and with canister at close range took a horrible toll. And yet, many of the tactics employed were much as if Napoleon were calling the shots,massed frontal attacks in tight formations into entrenched positions, etc.(Cold Harbor, Fredericksburg, Pickett's Charge.)

It was practically murder.
This post was edited on 1/24/21 at 11:05 pm
Posted by el mapache
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
205 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 8:22 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 1:49 pm
Posted by Tangineck
Mandeville
Member since Nov 2017
2958 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Slavery was legal in the ENTIRE USA for the first half of the war. 


No idea where you picked this up, but its complete bullshite.
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71163 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 11:04 am to
quote:

Grant threw three corps in a frontal assault against entrenched Rebel troops and lost 7000 in 30 minutes.


This myth needs to die. I'm pretty sure it was popularized by Shelby Foote and then again by Ken Burns, but the Union army did not lose 7,000 men in 30 minutes. They lost 6,500 men total for the whole day of fighting. Also...it wasn't Grant's plan - it was Meade's. As soon as he realized it wasn't going to work, Grant was the one who called it off.
Posted by el mapache
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
205 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 11:10 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 1:35 pm
Posted by Tangineck
Mandeville
Member since Nov 2017
2958 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 11:33 am to
You should read the northern states' constitutions where slavery was clearly outlawed 50 years before the war, and stop reading whatever op-ed drivel is printed as history these days.
Posted by LSU Mandalorian
Land of Louis
Member since Jan 2021
307 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

Even as late as during the war, the South could have won it right after the Emancipation Proclamation with one simple move. Get the liberals in England, with the promise of repayment using Southern Cotton, to buy the slaves Freedom.

Would never happen because the whole reason the South left was to keep slavery, what's the point if you are losing all your slaves to the British anyway? Also, the British had moved their cotton production to Egypt and India, so no need for them to waste money buying Confederate cotton at a higher price. Plus they would have to break the Union blockade which could lead them to war with the Union, which would not be in British interests.
Posted by Tmcgin
BATON ROUGE
Member since Jun 2010
6557 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 12:09 pm to
we bought Long Island for $26 worth of beads and stuff
Greatest Victory ever
Posted by chRxis
None of your fricking business
Member since Feb 2008
27939 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

Slavery had nothing to do with the war until it was used for morale later own

considering that damn near EVERY state that seceded from the union indicated that the right to own slaves aka "slavery" was, in fact, THE primary reason for the secession, you are very, VERY wrong about this.... would help for you to do some research, rather than espouse 2nd hand bullshite reasoning...

quote:

The north treated blacks badly also.

they weren't treated like free white men, but at least they were that... free... as in "not a slave", owned like a piece of property...

quote:

I think slavery is wrong but so is changing history to fit an agenda!!!

unfortunately, no one is "changing" a damn thing... if you want to throw the term "state's rights" around to make your love of the Confederacy more palatable and nondescript, you do you... but the FACT is the right that those states were so willing to secede and die over was slavery... period, end of discussion.... it's all there, black and white, written plain as day for anyone to see...
Posted by CedarChest
South of Mejico
Member since Jun 2020
2829 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 1:53 pm to
You forget one important detail, which is that Lincoln's reason for pursuing the war was because when the South ceceded they took about 80% of the Fed's tax base, which was the tarref on cotton exports to Europe (mostly Great Britian) and import taxes on finished goods (again, mostly Great Britian) that were taken by the cotton planters as payment for their raw product. One of Lincoln's first responses to the news that the South had seceded was "where is my tarriff! I must have my tariff!" It is true that one of the primary reasons the southern states ceceded was bause they feared Lincoln was going to make slavery illigal. Very short sited on the part of the planters I think, because Cyrus McCormick was doing wonders at his iron works outside of Fairfield, Virginia inventing tilling implements and seed layers that would, not very long after the war, begin producing farm implements that drastically reduce the need for slave labor. Also, sitting on his lazy arse over in England was one of Lincoln's most staunch admirers, the exiled German malcontent, Karl Marx. Rather interesting I'd say. To a large extent, one's admirers are admirers because they like who they think you are. It's obvious that Marx saw great potentian in utilizing Lincoln in his quest to bring about world wide communism. Was Marx correct in his assessment? I'm not sure, but it's a subject for someone to look into in a more than casual manner.
This post was edited on 1/25/21 at 2:00 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42653 posts
Posted on 1/25/21 at 1:56 pm to
quote:


Lee didn't just want to defeat Hooker at Chancellorsville, he wanted to destroy him. While the South rejoiced after their victory at Chancellorsville, Lee lamented at having failed to deal a decisive blow to the Army of the Potomac.

Understood, and that was Lee’s goal at Gettysburg.

What was Hooker’s goal? To flank Lee’s strong defensive position at Fredericksburg and take Richmond. He was in position to do that had Lee not boldly split his army and left a minimal force at Fredericksburg and surprised the cautious Hooker at Chancellorsville.

The winning play was for Hooker to push to Richmond while communicating with Sedgwick at Fredericksburg to use their superior numbers to beat Lee who could not defend against both forces.

Hooker’s incompetence allowed Lee to take the offensive and almost envelope a stronger Union force at Chancellorsville. Lee went all in on the attack risking a huge loss in hopes of pulling off a military miracle. He failed to destroy Hooker, but he put the North on the defensive until Gettysburg where he lost any chance to threaten the North by once again trying to destroy a superior force.
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