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Started By
Message
re: The west is the south
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:03 pm to justaniceguy
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:03 pm to justaniceguy
quote:They are, of course, most prominent in Utah, but have a very strong presence in most Western states. They forged the wagon trails that others would later follow, and soon after settling in Utah, they launched new trains to establish settlements in CA, AZ, NV, WY, ID, and Mexico, all of which they still maintain a strong presence in (minus Mexico) in addition to OR and WA where they also settled in number. They spread so quickly that the United States grew alarmed, and was in the process of sending an army to occupy 'Deseret' when they got a little distracted in the 1860's, and couldn't spare the men.
I don’t know much about their history and it seems they were most prominent in Utah.
I am generally anti Mormon and Utah doesn’t seem like a place I would particularly like. Two extremes, the Mormon and the anti Mormon, which is like the worst rabid leftist you could fathom.
As a result, they've been major players in politics and business in the west, since before much of it was even part of the US, and did a few things outside of Utah, like team up with the mob to build Las Vegas.
Their presence is noticeably lacking in the 'western' states east of Utah, which seems to more closely match his idea of the 'west', and more closely align with what would have been considered Old West. I mean, does the PNW even factor into his thesis, because it's a sizable portion of the west?
I do not believe his piece makes a convincing case for the entire region, just the parts that fit with his idea of the west.
1
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:07 pm to northshorebamaman
I would generally agree with you there. If those states ever had southern influence it has mostly been washed away.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:11 pm to justaniceguy
The premise of the Southern Strategy is that the Republicans were getting beaten in National elections and decided to "go get all the racists".
It is an attempt to connect the modern Republican Party with the Democratic Party that seceded from the Union, disenfranchised blacks, and fought the Civil Rights Act.
Democrats still won elections in the South until 15 years ago or so. The problem with the Southern Strategy is that "the racists" did not know which party to vote for until the iphone came out.
It is inherently untrue. Laughably false.
It is an attempt to connect the modern Republican Party with the Democratic Party that seceded from the Union, disenfranchised blacks, and fought the Civil Rights Act.
Democrats still won elections in the South until 15 years ago or so. The problem with the Southern Strategy is that "the racists" did not know which party to vote for until the iphone came out.
It is inherently untrue. Laughably false.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:14 pm to TriStateAreaFootball
Maybe the “southern strategy” is wrong but the fact is there were conservative and liberal factions in both parties. Most southerners, even fiscal conservatives, were democrats.
Today, that is no longer the case. I don’t think southerners had a mass awakening. The parties clearly started moving past each other in different ways.
My ancestors seceded from the Union. I’m not afraid of that fact. Not going to turn my back on it like you want to. Or maybe you are a carpetbagger? With no connection to our history?
Today, that is no longer the case. I don’t think southerners had a mass awakening. The parties clearly started moving past each other in different ways.
My ancestors seceded from the Union. I’m not afraid of that fact. Not going to turn my back on it like you want to. Or maybe you are a carpetbagger? With no connection to our history?
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:16 pm to justaniceguy
Yes. My first surname grandfather arrived here as an indentured servant in 1651 aboard a ship called Unity. Along with 150 others who were captured at the Battle of Dunbar by Cromwell during the English Civil War. He was from Argyleshire , Scotland and fought under the command of General David Leslie on the side of King Charles II.
This post was edited on 3/27/25 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:17 pm to justaniceguy
Merle haggard was from California
Bakersfield sound. California country music. Heavily influenced the Eagles and other artists in the 70’s.
Bakersfield sound. California country music. Heavily influenced the Eagles and other artists in the 70’s.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:21 pm to justaniceguy
quote:
My ancestors seceded from the Union. I’m not afraid of that fact.
Yes. This is why I am a Republican. I don't feel the need to justify their actions and beliefs. They are "ancestors".
quote:
I don’t think southerners had a mass awakening
No. Their children did.
Hence - I am a Republican.
quote:
Or maybe you are a carpetbagger?
My family (on my mother's side and my father's side) has been in the South since before the American Revolution.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:22 pm to Dirk Dawgler
Amazing!
That is super cool.
That is super cool.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:23 pm to TriStateAreaFootball
So you are also a Lincoln supporter I presume?
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:25 pm to justaniceguy
quote:
So you are also a Lincoln supporter I presume?
I don't like totalitarianism. However, I am proud of the Republican Party's history on Civil Rights.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:31 pm to TriStateAreaFootball
Fair enough!
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:34 pm to justaniceguy
I endorse this idea.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 3:56 pm to justaniceguy
There’s some similarity but the culture is still way different.
Farmers and ranchers out west are more down to earth and keep to themselves for the most part.
Southerners still have the plantation mindset. We are all about the big farms, political influence, socialites. And I’m referring specifically to the “southern gentleman type” not your average person. And I’m comparing the farmers/ranchers of both regions only. Seems out west you see more family farms where the owner works hard and actually runs the day to day. In the south the owner spends time doing other things like hunting trips, parties, political office, etc and hires someone to do the farming. Southern farmers love to be seen in the public eye. And they love to show off their status
But I’m basing this off where I live. It may actually just be more of a delta thing
Farmers and ranchers out west are more down to earth and keep to themselves for the most part.
Southerners still have the plantation mindset. We are all about the big farms, political influence, socialites. And I’m referring specifically to the “southern gentleman type” not your average person. And I’m comparing the farmers/ranchers of both regions only. Seems out west you see more family farms where the owner works hard and actually runs the day to day. In the south the owner spends time doing other things like hunting trips, parties, political office, etc and hires someone to do the farming. Southern farmers love to be seen in the public eye. And they love to show off their status
But I’m basing this off where I live. It may actually just be more of a delta thing
Posted on 3/27/25 at 4:03 pm to deltaland
quote:
Southerners still have the plantation mindset. We are all about the big farms, political influence, socialites. And I’m referring specifically to the “southern gentleman type” not your average person. And I’m comparing the farmers/ranchers of both regions only. Seems out west you see more family farms where the owner works hard and actually runs the day to day. In the south the owner spends time doing other things like hunting trips, parties, political office, etc and hires someone to do the farming. Southern farmers love to be seen in the public eye. And they love to show off their status
But I’m basing this off where I live. It may actually just be more of a delta thing
You have hit on the one part of this discussion that has been left out to this point. The "Old South" was a caste system.
1) Planters
2) Poor Whites and others
3) Slaves
Most modern southerners today are descended from #2 and not #1.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 4:11 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
matter what actually happens in the South, academia will never view the south as equals or peers to the other areas of the country. frick em.
Reminds me of a funny story when the catfish industry was growing fast and a lot of northern money flowed into it. They came down thinking they were gonna meet a bunch of hick redneck farmers and run the show. Instead they found a bunch of guys wearing nice clothes driving Lincolns with trophy wives and big homes. And the northern investors ended up losing their arse and ran back tail tucked because all those dumb hicks robbed them blind. One New York investor put 24 million in a catfish operation and that money disappeared fast. The farmers they partnered with all bought Audis to drive on the farm
And don’t get me started on how bad Hormel and ConAgra got burned. And the Aquapro farms publicly traded stock that was a pump and dump scheme.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 4:11 pm to TriStateAreaFootball
Wasn’t Merle the son of Okies?
Posted on 3/27/25 at 5:21 pm to justaniceguy
quote:
Even in Texas which is where I have always lived the southern influence has waned in my short lifetime. I am sure it was a lot more southern when my father was growing up.
When I moved to Texas in the early 1980s from Louisiana, I was shocked at all the petty regulations there and even getting fingerprinted from a driver's license.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 5:27 pm to LSUtoBOOT
quote:
It’s a damn shame the cowboys didn’t settle out west, California would be in better shape.
Post WWII all the Yankees who moved there from Urban areas of the Midwest and Northeast USA is the problem with California. When I lived there in the early 90's I had a few friends who were 4th and 5th generation Californians They were definitely more freedom loving that the average resident.
As far as being like the Old South, one of them related the incident at his older sister's wedding. His dad a desk sarge for LAPD and his uncle a Captain with them. The Watts riots broke out that day, his uncle went up to his dad to tell him it was time to go kill some Ni@@as without consequence, as many as they wanted to. Makes Bull Connor look like a BLM supporter
Posted on 3/27/25 at 8:50 pm to justaniceguy
The Deep South or the Lower South is a cultural and geographic subregion of the Southern United States. The term is used to describe the states which were most economically dependent on plantations and slavery, generally Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina.
The Confederate states:
(admitted or ratified)
1 Alabama March 13, 1861[4]
(ratified)
2 Georgia March 16, 1861[5]
(ratified)
3 Louisiana March 21, 1861[6]
(ratified)
4 Texas March 23, 1861[7]
(ratified)
5 Mississippi March 29, 1861[8]
(ratified)
6 South Carolina April 3, 1861[9]
(ratified)
7 Florida April 22, 1861[1]
(ratified)
8 Virginia May 7, 1861[2]
(admitted)
9 Arkansas May 18, 1861[10]
(admitted)
10 North Carolina May 20, 1861[11][12]
(admitted)
11 Tennessee July 2, 1861[13][14]
(admitted)
12 Missouri November 28, 1861[15]
(admitted)
13 Kentucky December 10, 1861[16]
(admitted)
The Confederate states:
(admitted or ratified)
1 Alabama March 13, 1861[4]
(ratified)
2 Georgia March 16, 1861[5]
(ratified)
3 Louisiana March 21, 1861[6]
(ratified)
4 Texas March 23, 1861[7]
(ratified)
5 Mississippi March 29, 1861[8]
(ratified)
6 South Carolina April 3, 1861[9]
(ratified)
7 Florida April 22, 1861[1]
(ratified)
8 Virginia May 7, 1861[2]
(admitted)
9 Arkansas May 18, 1861[10]
(admitted)
10 North Carolina May 20, 1861[11][12]
(admitted)
11 Tennessee July 2, 1861[13][14]
(admitted)
12 Missouri November 28, 1861[15]
(admitted)
13 Kentucky December 10, 1861[16]
(admitted)
Posted on 3/27/25 at 11:28 pm to justaniceguy
I been and go everywhere - ain't no place like the Great State of Texas
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