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Message
re: The Nuremberg Trials
Posted on 10/7/19 at 3:58 am to RazorBroncs
Posted on 10/7/19 at 3:58 am to RazorBroncs
quote:
The war machine that Hitler aroused in the USSR was far greater than that of our own
This is 100% false. By the end of the war, the United States had the strongest and most technologically advanced military force on the planet. By 1944, two-thirds of all Allied equipment used in the field had been produced in U.S. factories. Lend-Lease also kept the Soviets afloat. Over the course of the war, we sent to them 400,000 jeeps, 7,000 tanks, 11,400 aircraft, and almost 2 million tons of food.
quote:
We didn't have the manpower, first and foremost. The Nazis took out tens of millions of Russians and never touched Moscow, and that was well before Russia actually threw everything they had into war. After that the Russian armed forces swelled in size to something close to 10 million - AFTER they had lost all those men to the Nazis.
One again....false. By 1945, there were 12 million American men and women in the United States armed forces - 6 million of those were in the U.S. Army. These numbers were very comparable to what the Soviets had in their armed forces at that particular time.
We had only lost 400,000 men in the Second World War compared to about 11 million for the Soviet Union. The main difference between the Germans and Soviets was the huge population advantage the Russians enjoyed. They would not enjoy such an advantage over the United States as our populations were statistically comparable at the time.
quote:
The other thing that went against us - communism. USSR could put 100% of their labor force into the war machine. They were cranking out tanks and planes faster than the US and Britain combined, training pilots at 3x the rate, and there's not even a figure for ground troops.
Yeah...once again this is false. The entirety of the U.S. economy from 1942-1945 was focused on war production, just like every other major power involved in the Second World War. As stated above, we were supplying the Allies with over 66% of all equipment used in the war by 1944.
The "Soviet Steamroller" myth is nothing more than Soviet propaganda.
1
Posted on 10/7/19 at 4:02 am to RollTide1987
quote:
RollTide1987
I'm gonna assume by the "1987" in your handle that you're the same age as me. I don't agree with some of your points, but I always find it awesome when someone of our generation knows their shite about WWII.
I'm 100% Polish, grandparents all came to the US to either fight with the Americans or get away from the ghettos (half were Jewish).
I do agree with your point that some of the military personnel, who were just carrying out military operations, should've been sentenced more accordingly.
As for Hess, he was a day late and a dollar short. Look further into what the Nazi party did and believed before the war actually broke out, he knew what was coming and even had a major hand in planning it.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 4:10 am to RazorBroncs
quote:
Look further into what the Nazi party did and believed before the war actually broke out, he knew what was coming and even had a major hand in planning it.
I have and none of that matters to the Nuremberg Trials which were meant to find men and women guilty of war crimes. Hess's conviction exceeded their mandate. Was he a piece of shite? Yeah. Absolutely. But his argument that his actions pre-war should not count toward the criminal proceedings is a valid one. How did Nuremberg have jurisdiction over internal policies carried out by a regime pre-war? And how could they justify convicting and sentencing Hess for those pre-war decisions when many Soviets who sat on that court presided over similar measures undertaken by their own government prior to World War II? Stalin's policies resulted in the deaths of millions of Russians in the lead-up to the Second World War.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 4:26 am to RollTide1987
quote:
How did Nuremberg have jurisdiction over internal policies carried out by a regime pre-war?
One could argue that it was one continuous programme carried out from planning phase to fruition. "Leibensraum" was the cover from the beginning, and ethnic cleansing was always part of the plan.
That extended past war crimes and the actual start of military maneuvering on Poland and annexing of Czechoslovakia. Just like you could argue World War I started when Franz Ferdinand died long before militaries got involved.
The actions that became the reason the world went to war are still part of the war itself, the fact that they happened within a soverign nation didn't preclude them. At least that's my opinion, I realize the courts didn't necessarily agree.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:02 am to RollTide1987
quote:
How did Nuremberg have jurisdiction over internal policies carried out by a regime pre-war?
Their internal pre war policies led to the war.
I mean, I really don't care if we had jurisdiction or not. Our side won the war. I would have been ok with some of these guys being taken out back and shot.
This post was edited on 10/7/19 at 5:06 am
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:07 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Their internal pre war policies led to the war.
If by pre-war policies you mean re-arming and re-industrializing, then sure. But that goes on before just about every war so I fail to see how that's relevant.
quote:
I would have been ok with some of these guys being taken out back and shot.
shite happens in war. Though I am quite all right with the idea of the men who planned and carried out the Holocaust getting a bullet to the back of the head.
This post was edited on 10/7/19 at 5:10 am
Posted on 10/7/19 at 6:10 am to RollTide1987
quote:
the Nazi Party
frick
Every
Single
One
Of
Them
Posted on 10/7/19 at 7:36 am to RollTide1987
quote:
the soviet steamroller myth is propaganda
You would be shocked how many times ive zeen it repeated.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:26 am to TheHarahanian
quote:
In the case of the Nazis their punishment was lighter than most losers have gotten.
Probably a lesson learned from the mistakes of WW1, the allies were ,according to most historians, too harsh on Germany. This directly led to WW2. They probably didn't want a WW3.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:55 am to RollTide1987
Hess was also batshit crazy and into astrology.
There are claims that his flight into Britain was thanks to him being manipulated through works published by Britain’s “dirty tricks” offices, such as by some a-hole who became an author after the war. Guy by the name of Ian Fleming who wrote some spy books.
There are claims that his flight into Britain was thanks to him being manipulated through works published by Britain’s “dirty tricks” offices, such as by some a-hole who became an author after the war. Guy by the name of Ian Fleming who wrote some spy books.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 9:41 am to teke184
I've read several thousand books on the Holocaust,the majority starting off with the origins of Hitler's Nazi Party, the large majority of historical nature. And I have not read one article that defends Hess. You are into criticizing the Trials because you say they exceeded their jurisdiction. The Doctors' Trials were conducted separately, as were the trials of the murder squads in the East; a separate trial was held for the criminals at Ravensbruk, Sobior, etc. And don't excuse Hess because of what Stalin did and got away with, that is ridiculous.A lot of the Japanese war criminals were not brought to justice because of MacArthur. Does that excuse Hess? I have no qualms about anyone in Hitler's inner circle getting the maximum sentences. They were all monster - like criminals in any sense of the word.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 9:43 am to Keltic Tiger
quote:
I've read several thousand books on the Holocaust
come on, baw
and subtle I know how to read brag
Posted on 10/7/19 at 9:46 am to RollTide1987
quote:I actually wrote a paper on this point of view in college. Really a fascinating process that Donitz went through. While he did get sentenced to 10 years for something that we did as well, Nimitz actually saved him from the gallows with his testimony. 10 years from the Nuremberg Trials is a light sentence in comparison to others who had less of an effect on the war.
And then there were others such as Admiral Karl Donitz of the Kriegsmarine. He carried out the practice of unrestricted submarine warfare against the British merchant fleet and got 10 years in prison for it. This despite the fact that we did the EXACT SAME THING against the Japanese in the Pacific. The defense team actually called Admiral Chester Nimitz as a witness for Donitz. They sentenced him to prison anyway.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 9:50 am to TexasTiger90
quote:
While he did get sentenced to 10 years for something that we did as well,
don't start none, won't be none
Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:00 am to 777Tiger
quote:
don't start none, won't be none
something something, history, something victorsPosted on 10/7/19 at 10:07 am to 777Tiger
Ahhh.. I am an old fart who has read a lot....there was life before computers you know...as did my wife.And as an old fart, I no longer have to be subtle or bite my tongue.My sons feel that Eastwood's character was modeled after me. FWIW while being totally irrelevant here. T stand by my comments.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:11 am to Keltic Tiger
quote:
I am an old fart who has read a lot..
same here was just yanking your chain, I used to consider myself well read on WWII but it's been a long time, wasn't there more to the dude commandeering a plane and bolting for the UK than altruistic intentions? wasn't the jig up on him and he thought he was about to go for the long ride or something?
Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:23 am to RollTide1987
Did any of these people know about the atrocities being done to Jews/Non-Aryans?
If so, I'm glad they were punished.
If so, I'm glad they were punished.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:07 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:
And I have not read one article that defends Hess.
By saying Hess didn't deserve to spend the rest of his life in prison is not defending him. I'm merely saying his sentence was too harsh compared with other war criminals who got less time or no time served at all.
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