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re: The Michigan high school shooter's parents are on the run (now arrested and in custody)
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:12 am to stout
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:12 am to stout
quote:
The videos and journal are irrelevant because they were found after the fact and no way to prove the parents knew.
The drawing of murdering people was not found after the fact. The parents went to the school about the drawing an hour or two before the shooting started. The parents didn't know where the gun was because it wasn't in their possession at the time. They could have told the school about buying the gun as well. The parents were negligent.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:14 am
2
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:14 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
quote:
The drawing of murdering people was not found after the fact.
I did not say it was.
quote:
The parents went to the school about the drawing an hour or two before the shooting started.
Sure and they chose to let the kid stay in school. You are wanting to put parents in prison for life possibly for ignoring the drawings and the school counselors suggestion. That is extreme.
quote:
The parents didn't know where the gun was because it wasn't in their possession at the time.
No Federal or state CAP laws
quote:
They could have told the school about buying the gun as well.
You are prosecuting them on not telling a school that they had guns?
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:16 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:14 am to stout
quote:
What inaction specifically? Ignoring a drawing and a school counselors suggestion? Those two things that happened in the span of a few hours?
Yes. He’s a minor. They’re legally responsible for him. They did not seek a mental health assessment that would have put him into inpatient with his comments. That’s textbook medical neglect and their inaction lead to the direct harm of students.
quote:
PERSONAL responsibility means a person is responsible for their actions and the teen is being held accountable. The parents being responsible is very questionable IMO and should be questionable to anyone if they take emotions out of it.
It is their actions as a parent. A parent being responsible for their minor is very questionable? Get the frick out with that shite. That’s the whole point of being a minor and parent that IS responsible for them.
Again. We charge parents all of the time for educational and medical neglect. We remove kids from homes when a standard level of care isn’t met. There is an legal standard to you being more than a sack of flesh and bones raising a kid.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:15 am to stout
Parents likely didn’t do anything because they were scared of their own son and didn’t want to be executed in the middle of the night.
ETA: I haven’t followed this at all
ETA: I haven’t followed this at all
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:16 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:15 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
And? Your points don't equal invol manslaughter. If anything, the school is more culpable because the school has the authority to remove the kid from the school.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:16 am to stout
It's not a crime to be stupid. The parents are morons that should have taken the next step after the meeting and alerted the school that a gun was purchased. Is it a crime to be stupid? No. Should these parents be forever shamed and publicly flogged, absolutely.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:16 am to stout
quote:
I did not say it was.
You conveniently left it out for the sake of your flawed argument.
quote:
Sure and they chose to let the kid stay in school. You are wanting to put parents in prison for life possibly for ignoring the drawings and the school counselors suggestion. That is extreme.
I don't think involuntary manslaughter is prison for life.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:16 am to Boss
quote:
It's not a crime to be stupid. The parents are morons that should have taken the next step after the meeting and alerted the school that a gun was purchased. Is it a crime to be stupid? No. Should these parents be forever shamed and publicly flogged, absolutely.
It's a crime to be negligent though.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:17 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
Ya that is where I am falling on this.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:17 am to BobRoss
quote:
And? Your points don't equal invol manslaughter. If anything, the school is more culpable because the school has the authority to remove the kid from the school.
The school has a responsibility and it appears they failed. The parents were also negligent.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:20 am to Jake88
quote:
Will this be applied to parents of gang affiliated minors who kill?
This question has been asked already. Yes, it should be applied to them.
As I said with the 11 year old "prolific carjacker" in Chicago. A kid whose nuts probably haven't even dropped regularly going out at night to stick a gun in the face of innocent people in order to steal their vehicles.
Whomever is responsible for that kid, be it mom, grandma, aunt, whoever, needs to spend some time in jail.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:20 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Yes. He’s a minor. They’re legally responsible for him. They did not seek a mental health assessment that would have put him into inpatient with his comments. That’s textbook medical neglect and their inaction lead to the direct harm of students.
16 year olds can be tried as adults but in this case he is a kid. See the moving goal post here?
Also, you are fricking insane if you think the parents deserve life over this. Sorry but you are too far gone if you can sit here and confidently say you are OK with a charge as extreme as IM over the parents inactions concerning a 16 year old.
And if you are, then we need to never try a 16 year old as an adult again anywhere in our judicial system or allow emancipation of a 16 year old.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:20 am to BobRoss
quote:
And? Your points don't equal invol manslaughter. If anything, the school is more culpable because the school has the authority to remove the kid from the school.
Schools have protocols for expulsion and ordering non-trespassing orders against former students. But protocols for public schools are contingent on an actual verifiable threat to the school. (Mental health issues , while a concern, are not grounds for this.) My guess, if you look into both the federal and Michigan state statutes and regulations (education being regulated by both federal and state levels), there was really not much for the school to do unless the parents willingly volunteered the information that the son owned firearms and could potentially be in possession of a firearm on campus.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:21 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
I dont see how any of this adds to involuntary manslaughter.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:23 am to stout
quote:
Also, you are fricking insane if you think the parents deserve life over this. Sorry but you are too far gone if you can sit here and confidently say you are OK with a charge as extreme as IM over the parents inactions concerning a 16 year old.
Given the evidence, I’m absolutely ok with it. They purposefully ignored getting their child necessary mental health assistance when he was identified as a clear threat to his peers. The school staff who didn’t send him home should also be culpable as they didn’t demand they get that assistance immediately versus a 48 hour window.
You come off as someone who it’s hitting a little too close to home for and is projecting, if we’re gonna talk that kind of shite. But you keep doing you.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:24 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
quote:
You conveniently left it out for the sake of your flawed argument.
Do they not teach reading comprehension these days?
I said:
quote:
I think IM is extreme. Imagine facing life in prison over something your child did and you are basically guilty of ignoring some drawings and a high school counselor. There are no CAP laws concerning firearms in Michigan nor are there Federal CAP laws.
quote:
I don't think involuntary manslaughter is prison for life.
Maybe not but no matter how you look at it in the end it's a lifetime punishment.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:25 am to BobRoss
quote:
I dont see how any of this adds to involuntary manslaughter.
You need to do some more research, brah. Wayne County in the Detroit area has gotten parents for involuntary manslaughter convictions for much less than what these parents did. A dad got put in prison a few years ago for his son getting shot while playing video games. The gun was not secured in the home.
quote:
A Detroit father in 2016 pleaded guilty to second-degree murder after his 9-year-old son shot himself with a shotgun that was loaded, unsecured and accessible to the child. A Detroit grandfather and grandmother were charged with manslaughter in 2014 after their 4-year-old grandson was shot by his 4-year-old cousin with a rifle left loaded in a bedroom of the home where the children were playing. The grandparents were each sentenced to two years in prison.
In Washtenaw County in 2016, police sought manslaughter charges against the father of a 3-year-old shot and killed by the 10-year-old son of his mother's boyfriend. The boy found the gun in a bedroom closet shelf about 5½ feet from the ground.
LINK
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:27 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:26 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Given the evidence, I’m absolutely ok with it.
Yea you're fricking insane, Karen
quote:
You come off as someone who it’s hitting a little too close to home for and is projecting
I come off as someone that doesn't let emotions get in the way of logic unlike you.
No logical person can honestly say that IM is the right charge for the parents.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:26 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Would’ve prompted admin to tell the parents he couldn’t return to school until he was seen and cleared by a mental health professional. Or we would offer to call in a mobile assessment.
It would have also prompted us to search his backpack ourselves. And if the parents refused to get him help, a CPS call would be coming. Security would’ve been called to remove them from the property (kid included) if they didn’t leave when we requested. There’d be no staying at school.
I don't mean to do the whole, "it could've been me", thing. But I am shocked the school didn't do this.
I know when I was in high school, we had a weird kid who was well, very weird and the outcast type. He didn't talk to anyone. People used to make jokes that if anyone were to shoot up the school, it would be him. For that reason, he became pretty popular. Everyone would be overly nice to him. We all wanted to be his friend, so that if he decided to shoot up the school, he would tell us in advance. Hell, once the teacher threatened to fail him for not doing any work. Literally our entire class begged her to give him another chance.
In any case, one day in class, he kept repeating "Beware the Ides of March". Over and over. He would never explain what it meant" He just kept repeating. March 15 was about 2 weeks away. Our teacher reported him, and his parents had to take him home that day. The school forced the parents to get him into therapy. From that day, he never came back to school, even though we were 2 months away from graduation.
Thankfully, March 15th was a regular day. But alot of people skipped school that day. And the people who were there were paranoid the entire time.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:26 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Schools have protocols for expulsion and ordering non-trespassing orders against former students. But protocols for public schools are contingent on an actual verifiable threat to the school. (Mental health issues , while a concern, are not grounds for this.) My guess, if you look into both the federal and Michigan state statutes and regulations (education being regulated by both federal and state levels), there was really not much for the school to do unless the parents willingly volunteered the information that the son owned firearms and could potentially be in possession of a firearm on campus.
School policy aside, ethically (as we share some of the same ethics in the profession), the school counselor had a responsibility to ensure he received treatment because his actions beforehand warranted that kind of assessment.
We’ve done the same in similar situations, sent the kid home with the parents so they could see a mental health professional before returning OR facilitated a mobile assessment. It’s a similar protocol with suicidal kids.
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