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re: The Michigan high school shooter's parents are on the run (now arrested and in custody)
Posted on 12/4/21 at 8:36 am to hikingfan
Posted on 12/4/21 at 8:36 am to hikingfan
When is Alec Baldwin going to be locked up?
He pointed a loaded weapon at someone, the weapon discharged, and took someone’s life.
Instead of going to jail he gets an ABC special.
This shows us there is a two tier justice system.
He pointed a loaded weapon at someone, the weapon discharged, and took someone’s life.
Instead of going to jail he gets an ABC special.
This shows us there is a two tier justice system.
1
Posted on 12/4/21 at 8:51 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
quote:
Did the parents just buy him a car 4 days earlier and the car is at school?
Lets do knife then
Posted on 12/4/21 at 8:57 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Julie with the black clothes and eyeliner may be angsty but it becomes a bit more than emo angst when they’re making videos about killing their classmates to go along with it.
Who made a video about killing classmates?
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:11 am to stout
quote:
Who made a video about killing classmates?
The kid in Michigan. Authorities found videos on his phone about killing students. They also found a journal of his that mentioned shooting and killing students.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:13 am to stout
Am I taking crazy pills here? I think involuntary manslaughter sounds ridiculous.
* the kid looked up ammo. So what? People with guns look up ammo.
* he was called into the office after he drew some disturbing stuff. Isnt it the responsibility of the school to MAKE him go home?. At that point the parents don't know the gun is missing.
* the mom texts her son AFTER the shooting starts. And the dad calls 911 after he realizes the gun is missing.
I just don't see how the parents are culpable of anything.
* the kid looked up ammo. So what? People with guns look up ammo.
* he was called into the office after he drew some disturbing stuff. Isnt it the responsibility of the school to MAKE him go home?. At that point the parents don't know the gun is missing.
* the mom texts her son AFTER the shooting starts. And the dad calls 911 after he realizes the gun is missing.
I just don't see how the parents are culpable of anything.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:19 am to stout
Would the OT support a law that states anyone buying a firearm is legally responsible for the firearm?
The dad bought the gun from an FFL dealer. He filled out a 4473. He took responsibility for the firearm.
So a firearm is used in a crime, a trace is done on the firearm and if the owner of the firearm can not prove they either a: transferred the firearm to someone else or b: had the firearm secured properly; they would be held liable.
This means the firearm owner should be able to show they had a lock box, a safe, or even trigger guard/cable lock they used.
Now the obvious issue is independent selling. Not everyone wants to get a notary involved if they sell their buddy their hunting rifle because their buying a new one. But that goes on a whole different issue anyways.
The dad bought the gun from an FFL dealer. He filled out a 4473. He took responsibility for the firearm.
So a firearm is used in a crime, a trace is done on the firearm and if the owner of the firearm can not prove they either a: transferred the firearm to someone else or b: had the firearm secured properly; they would be held liable.
This means the firearm owner should be able to show they had a lock box, a safe, or even trigger guard/cable lock they used.
Now the obvious issue is independent selling. Not everyone wants to get a notary involved if they sell their buddy their hunting rifle because their buying a new one. But that goes on a whole different issue anyways.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:38 am to ThoseGuys
It sounds like they improperly stored the firearm and while they should have seen the signs - parents have MASSIVE blind spots for this stuff when it comes to their children.
The school doesn't have the power to send a student home unilaterally or to have them put into a more strictly controlled environment after a note like that?
Parents definitely missed a bunch but again, lots of parents can be clueless about what is really going on with their kids and I am sure it is a very difficult leap to go from, my son has some anger issues to my son may shoot up his school.
I'm certainly for some reasonable gun acquisition / storage laws but outside of one in place, I'm having trouble seeing the blame for the parents outside of some sort of negligence or reckless endangerment or something of that nature.
Also am not a lawyer so am just sort of guessing but the involuntary manslaughter charge for what their son did confuses me.
The school doesn't have the power to send a student home unilaterally or to have them put into a more strictly controlled environment after a note like that?
Parents definitely missed a bunch but again, lots of parents can be clueless about what is really going on with their kids and I am sure it is a very difficult leap to go from, my son has some anger issues to my son may shoot up his school.
I'm certainly for some reasonable gun acquisition / storage laws but outside of one in place, I'm having trouble seeing the blame for the parents outside of some sort of negligence or reckless endangerment or something of that nature.
Also am not a lawyer so am just sort of guessing but the involuntary manslaughter charge for what their son did confuses me.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:11 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:47 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
. Authorities found videos on his phone about killing students. They also found a journal of his that mentioned shooting and killing students.
So the authorities found all of this after the fact and you assume the parents knew about this stuff?
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:50 am to diat150
quote:
Lets do knife then
Did his parents buy him a knife 4 days earlier and he was at school making a drawing of stabbing people with a knife? And the parents never mentioned to the school that they had just bought him a knife?
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:51 am to ThoseGuys
quote:
So a firearm is used in a crime, a trace is done on the firearm and if the owner of the firearm can not prove they either a: transferred the firearm to someone else or b: had the firearm secured properly; they would be held liable.
See the issue with your stupid idea of a law is it leads to a national gun registry. Uncle Sam doesnt need to audit my gun inventory.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:51 am to stout
quote:
So the authorities found all of this after the fact and you assume the parents knew about this stuff?
As the step-parent of a teenager who is online a lot (especially gaming), I’d expect parents to realistically parent their kid. There were apparently multiple videos on his phone, social media posts about what he wanted to do, handling a firearm without supervision, etc. Be a parent and monitor your fricking kid like a responsible parent.
For a bunch that’s always screaming about personal responsibility why are y’all giving these parents a pass? Half of our problems in this society is laissez faire parenting. This is a good example of it.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:52 am to BobRoss
quote:
* he was called into the office after he drew some disturbing stuff. Isnt it the responsibility of the school to MAKE him go home?. At that point the parents don't know the gun is missing.
The parents don't know where the gun is at that point, but they do know their son just drew some pictures of murdering people with a gun. The parents never told the school that they had just bought their son a gun either.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 9:54 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 9:58 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
As the step-parent of a teenager who is online a lot (especially gaming), I’d expect parents to realistically parent their kid. There were apparently multiple videos on his phone, social media posts about what he wanted to do, handling a firearm without supervision, etc. Be a parent and monitor your fricking kid like a responsible parent.
So not parenting to a level you agree with is justifiable of a charge as extreme as involuntary manslaughter?
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:00 am to stout
quote:
So not parenting to a level you agree with is justifiable of a charge as extreme as involuntary manslaughter?
Depends on the circumstances. I think this particular case deserves the involuntary manslaughter charge since the parents were wreckless and it caused lives to be lost.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:01 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:01 am to stout
quote:
So not parenting to a level you agree with is justifiable of a charge as extreme as involuntary manslaughter?
We have the ability to file educational and medical neglect charges against parents who don’t parent to standard the law agrees with, so miss me with that “a level you agree with” bullshite.
Their inaction lead to their child murdering and injuring several classmates. Again, y’all hollering all of the time about personal responsibility so why are you shying away in this case? When the evidence that we’ve seen so far is pretty clear of the parenting negligence.
Now don’t mistake this as me not thinking the school counselor/admin shouldn’t be responsible. Its abhorrent that they didn’t force the parents to get him assessed ASAP and sent him back to class. I wouldn’t be bothered with charges against them, loss of license, etc.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:02 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:Will this be applied to parents of gang affiliated minors who kill?
Their inaction lead to their child murdering and injuring several classmates. Again, y’all hollering all of the time about personal responsibility so why are you shying away in this case? When the evidence that we’ve seen so far is pretty clear of the parenting negligence
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:04 am to Jake88
quote:
Will this be applied to parents of gang affiliated minors who kill?
Should it be if they neglected to get their child help and they were knowledgeable of their actions?
Yes. I don’t have an issue that. I’m 100% for addressing that with parents. I worked in a school with high gang activity and most of those parents were dead or incarcerated already.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 10:05 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:06 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
I think IM is extreme. Imagine facing life in prison over something your child did and you are basically guilty of ignoring some drawings and a high school counselor. There are no CAP laws concerning firearms in Michigan nor are there Federal CAP laws.
The videos and journal are irrelevant because they were found after the fact and no way to prove the parents knew.
The videos and journal are irrelevant because they were found after the fact and no way to prove the parents knew.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:08 am to johnnyrocket
quote:
When is Alec Baldwin going to be locked up?
He pointed a loaded weapon at someone, the weapon discharged, and took someone’s life.
Instead of going to jail he gets an ABC special.
This shows us there is a two tier justice system.
You're definitely comparing apples to oranges.
We know one guy intentionally murdered people due to his parents being wreckless. The other case is still being investigated and there is no evidence of the shooting being intentional.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 10:10 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Their inaction lead to their child murdering and injuring several classmates
What inaction specifically? Ignoring a drawing and a school counselors suggestion? Those two things that happened in the span of a few hours?
quote:
Again, y’all hollering all of the time about personal responsibility
PERSONAL responsibility means a person is responsible for their actions and the teen is being held accountable. The parents being responsible is very questionable IMO and should be questionable to anyone if they take emotions out of it.
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