re: The idea anyone is entitled to a "livable wage" is Ludacris

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I bet in 20 years almost everyone will be some kind of gig worker.

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Are they still counting "gig work" as a job in the reports?

This entire thread is kinda funny when you consider that today, it requires a lot fewer hours than it did 100 years ago for the poor to provide for their basic needs. You have to try to starve in America today. No 7-12s a week in the coal mine to afford your rent in the the boarding house (these need to become a thing again).

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Our nation is run on the backs of cheap labor in other countries

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We priced ourselves out of global labor markets. Its already inefficient to do low level mfg here.

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That’s really cool if you’re 16 and live at home with no bills.

It is that hard. If you want to go to a trade school, for, say, software (the equivalent would be a boot camp), which is typically the highest paying entry level job that doesn’t require a degree in most states, you have class a lot longer than 2 hours and homework and studying is insanely rigorous. I know because I dabbled in it. I went to one of the top bootcamps in the country (not one of these cheap scam 12 week programs) and it was 10-5, and I never studied less than 4 hours a night. It was deferred tuition (you don’t pay until you get a job that pays at least 75k, at which point you give 15% of your salary), but they specifically recommended we don’t have jobs because we wouldn’t make it. They were right. I left because it was too intense and went back to my old career.

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Who said I lived at home? My brother and I split an apartment in Shreveport. I worked and paid my portion of the bills, car payment, car insurance, gas and food. Tuition and books were dirt cheap, like $500/semester. I also worked and put myself through a TCFP Fire and EMS Academy in McKinney, TX that was 8-5 M-F for 6 months at 20 and was second in my class. I worked nights at a Lowes after class and had two roommates splitting rent at a house in Plano.

You make it out like it's impossible because you couldn't do it. No wonder you're arguing for this ridiculous proposition. Nobody said it was easy. Maybe you just don't have the intestinal fortitude to do what needs to be done.

Your argument that a job is worth a "livable wage" because that job will always be there is ridiculous, as well. The idea that someone should be able to fully support themselves in an entry-level or no/low-skill positions does nothing but inflate the problem. And who sets that parameter? Does that mean being able to pay a mortgage, raise the typical 2.5 kids, have brand new cars, the latest cell phone, starbucks twice a day? Is it being single and having a one bedroom apartment and eating bologna sandwiches three meals a day? There are people working at McD's making $20+ an hour already. Do they get an equal percentage raise when the people below them get the minimum wage increase?

You miss the point that the job itself is not worth very much. I'm not paying someone advanced apprentice/new Journeyman wages to sweep a job site and clean up trash or organize work trucks. That job is simply to make the crews more efficient. Want to make more? Pay attention, start learning, pay attention in the apprenticeship program I put you in and pay for, and take the next step. I'll always need someone to sweep. If someone wants to stay in that position for their entire life, that's their choice. It's not my responsibility to compensate that employee for more than what that job is worth simply because that job doesn't pay all their bills. Period.

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no one is entitled to a livable wage

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A universal truth.

Its undeniable.

Do you wanna start paying dudes $500 to mow your yard? This is the kind of entitlement that will get you there.

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If you cost more than youre producing, youre not contributing.


That’s subjective

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Absolutely not.

There is no universal value on labor.

This is the old Labor Theory of Value argument.

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I'm just glad you guys have it figured out, because I sure as hell don't.

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Well, since the current paradigm is experimental, none of us do.

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Do you wanna start paying dudes $500 to mow your yard? This is the kind of entitlement that will get you there.

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1000%. Someone's personal circumstances are their own problem to solve. If you can't pay your bills, that's not my problem as your employer. A guy that can accurately calculate and properly install a three-phase feeder for a pump in a hazardous location is worth significantly more than somebody sweeping up behind him. He didn't get there because I said, "Hey, you show up on time and you're sober, put down that broom and go over to this water treatment plant today. They just replaced a pump with a bigger one." It takes years to get to that level. To simply give a raise to the guy sweeping devalues the years of studying, experience, and license of the Journeyman.

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I'm just glad that we now know that if we reduce peoples wages to $5 an hour rather than $15 an hour, they'll be driven to work harder and all get jobs that they can buy a house with rather than resorting to drugs and stealing shite from me whether through burglery or the government taking it out of my paycheck .

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I made minimum wage at my first electrical job. Got a raise as I proved myself. Got my residential wireman license. Got my Journeyman license. Got my Master's license. Started my own business. Never did drugs. Never stole from anybody. Never got a govt handout.

I have two former employees that now own their own businesses, and one of them is a direct competitor. A current employee just passed the first portion of his Master's test at 25 years old. I have no doubt he'll own his own company within the next 5 years, and I'll be happy for him. Every single person that walks through my door to apply for a job has the same opportunity, but it isn't just given to them.

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You literally have no expectations for these people.

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