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re: The ADHD Fallacy: It’s Time To Stop Treating Childhood as a Disease

Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:53 pm to
Posted by Henry Jones Jr
Member since Jun 2011
74692 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:53 pm to
quote:

all humans can be trained to sit still. it just requires the right positive reinforcement and punishment

Yeah. Just like depressed people can be taught to be happy, right?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
463913 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:54 pm to
quote:

If your kid keeps hitting other kids at school, can he just not help it?

likely means he is being given the wrong reinforcements or lack of punishment

or he's psychotic and needs to be institutionalized
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
463913 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

Yeah. Just like depressed people can be taught to be happy, right?

depressed people have a biological defect but they can be trained to deal with their issues

the #1 thing is explaining what depression is, chemically, which allows people who are depressed to identify it

there are also option that aren't medication...#1 being exercise and #2 being diet

there are extreme cases, but that is rare
Posted by supadave3
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2005
31708 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

There is no doubt that it helps you concentrate.


I agree. I was prescribed it later in life and it greatly helped me at work, but after awhile I felt that it began to rob me of my personality. I started to get very aggravated at people for the slightest things and it also tended to make me isolate after work.
Posted by Kay
Member since Mar 2011
1944 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:00 pm to
I never believed in it, but as a teacher I see it now. Kids cannot control their behavior. The way I could sit in a desk and do as told for hours on end, some cannot. Over diagnosed? Sure. Fabricated disease? Nah.
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66024 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:01 pm to
quote:

the problem with ADD/ADHD is those who are diagnosed are basically given a cheat code for school.


I was horrified when some guy on here started a thread about a year ago, scared that he wasn't going to be able to compete in med school without adderall/vyvanse/whatever.

These threads are always a tough call because I feel like ADHD is sort of a fad, but my pops is a shrink and my sister has some bipolar issues, so mental illness is definitely real to me. I think there is something to why there seems to be more autism and allergies than ever that is beyond better diagnosis (food supply?), but I feel like the ADHD (and possibly depression/anxiety) is over-diagnosis and lazy parenting.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 8:05 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
463913 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:01 pm to
quote:

but as a teacher I see it now. Kids cannot control their behavior. The way I could sit in a desk and do as told for hours on end, some cannot.

some human evolved to hunt

some were allowed to be house cats once we formed society

Posted by Dijkstra
Michael J. Fox's location in time.
Member since Sep 2007
8745 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

depressed people have a biological defect but they can be trained to deal with their issues

the #1 thing is explaining what depression is, chemically, which allows people who are depressed to identify it

there are also option that aren't medication...#1 being exercise and #2 being diet

there are extreme cases, but that is rare


You do know that this is exactly the same as how ADHD is approached, right? If you go to a psychologist who specializes in cases with ADHD, they will try every avenue possible before prescribing medicine. You're told to change your diet, exercise, get a healthy daily routine, and to make sure you get adequate amounts of sleep.

Like I said before, it is diagnosed in that same way that depression is overdiagnosed. People come in with what they "know" they have and play the system to get whatever it is they want. That doesn't mean that ADHD doesn't have proper science backing it up as well. If you'd like to read about it, feel free to read this: LINK
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 8:03 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
463913 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:04 pm to
i never said that there wasn't a biological defect that led to those results, but behaviorism can be used to make people act certain ways

my issues with ADD primarily focus on the medication. like i said earlier, those kids are given cheat codes that should be available for everyone
Posted by rompus
Kentucky
Member since Jan 2010
608 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:06 pm to
So since science is science, explain how my son, who has ADHD was affected by Disney movies that he never watched. Matter of fact, when he was a child he wouldn't watch ANY cartoon. He would only watch a show if it had live actors in it and even then, didn't care to watch TV much at all. He has always preferred being outdoors to being inside. But I guess not every kid fits you nice neat little mold huh?

So here is his story. All of his life, he has been different. When he was a baby, he would go from one toy to the next until he emptied the toybox. His attention span was always short, but he was very intelligent. He did well in school to begin with, but as time went on, he got worse and worse grades even though he knew the material. Every night was a struggle to get him to do homework. He would sit at the kitchen table for hours just to complete a few sheets of homework. It was frustrating to say the least to see our child, who we knew was very intelligent, not make the grades that we knew he was capable of making.

Never, not once did a teacher, principal or counselor suggest to medicate him. They did say he was a little hyper at times, but that they didn't have a problem with that. They always told us he was bright, but had a problem focusing. We knew, we could see the handwriting on the wall, but I refused to medicate a young child who couldn't tell us whether or not the drugs were adversely affecting him. I was also hopeful that he would outgrow it or get it under control on his own. Didn't happen...

Skip forward to his Junior year in high school. He was to the point of failing almost all his classes.
We were at wits end. We had tried everything we could over the years to get him to improve his grades. No amount of grounding, spanking, begging or pleading helped.

We began to work with a psychologist who specialized in helping kids with ADHD be more organized and to try to help them without medication. This didn't work either. He was spiraling down, facing failing school. No amount of trying was helping. The psychologist suggested we try a non-stimulant medication. This did not help either. He then suggested we talk with a Psychiatrist who would work with my son to get him dosed properly with a stimulant type of medication.

He started him on Vyvanse. He had us start out giving him 10mg doses and worked up to get the smallest dose possible that would help him. This doctor is definitely not about just "doping them up".

Boom. Like flipping a switch. The grades went from Ds and Fs to A's. He is now in his senior year, has made all As all year in AP classes like Physics II, Calculus III, and pre-engineering classes. He has been accepted into UK's school of engineering for the Fall Semester and is one of the leaders in his School engineering program. He is less than a month away from becoming an Eagle Scout. The difference is unreal.

We resisted medicating him for so long. I wanted to wait until he was old enough to know if the medicine was helping and could control it himself. He knows when to take it an not to take it. He never takes it on the weekend, only when he needs it for school.

Yeah, I know, tldr... oh wait, if it is tldr, the maybe YOU should be tested.

Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
40080 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:07 pm to
quote:

A-MEN.

Some people are so hard headed. All human brains work exactly the same and its time for all the bad parents and "Doctors" to face reality.

It's so simple. If your child behaves differently than others, you beat him with a hand, belt and/or stick, take away all privileges and most importantly of all, yell at him frequently.

Never make the mistake seeking "professional" help. Talk to other average joes like us. If you really luck up, you'll find a twentysomething, single male that's never had children or any medical training. Soak in every word they say and thank them for their time everyday.

Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14495 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:08 pm to
Tell the leading researchers your story.
Posted by Dijkstra
Michael J. Fox's location in time.
Member since Sep 2007
8745 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:08 pm to
I will never disagree that too many children are placed on it needlessly. I won't disagree that a lot of people in college use it as a "cheat" to get through it, either. Like I said before, someone who truly suffers from ADHD doesn't just quit treating it once they're done with school without it having a dramatic fact on them. That's the number one signal to me that someone wasn't truly dealing with ADHD and was, in fact, just looking for an "On" button for their motivation to do things. My entire point is that are people who truly suffer from ADHD, and not every person who claims to have it just wants to cheat their way through life.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 8:10 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
463913 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:14 pm to
quote:

My entire point is that are people who truly suffer from ADHD, and not every person who claims to have it just wants to cheat their way through life.

well in the objective, the person with ADD is "Cheating", too. if some kids get access to teh cheat code, all should get access

Posted by rompus
Kentucky
Member since Jan 2010
608 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

Tell the leading researchers your story.


Leading research says that over half of posters on any given message board are indeed trolls.

Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14495 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:25 pm to
I'm neither a researcher or a troll.
Posted by rompus
Kentucky
Member since Jan 2010
608 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:29 pm to
Leading researchers say that 99% of internet trolls live in denial.

Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14495 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

Leading researchers say that 99% of internet trolls live in denial.

quote:

Leading researchers say that 99% of internet trolls live in denial.




I don't have these issues and have raised three kids...
Posted by rompus
Kentucky
Member since Jan 2010
608 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:44 pm to
I am happy for you. Its great that you have three kids who don't have ADHD.

But you posted some so called "fact" about Disney movies causing ADHD.

So if you truly believe that crap, I feel sorry for you. If not, then you are a troll.

Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14495 posts
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:51 pm to
Ok, Disney movies was specific. You are correct, it isn't just Disney movies. It's fast moving scenes in general.
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