re: Suppose you discovered there is no afterlife

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How would that affect your morality, how you live your life?

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This is the question that no Christian wants to answer, honestly. While I agree with another poster who said that it’s basically an illogical/impossible question (because I believe Romans 1:18-20) I’ll give it a go.

I’ll assume that by no afterlife, you also mean no God- therefore no consequences for your actions beyond what you may experience here on earth.

I personally find it laughable, and completely absurd for anyone to pretend that they would be this great person regardless of consequences. That’s just not what we see in reality. People who believe in God, and the afterlife, exhibit various degrees of self control which are directly related to their level of faith. People who don’t adhere to any religious ideology exhibit varying degrees of self control based solely on their assessment of (temporal) risk/reward.

I think any Christian is going to be hesitant to admit that they would be a total POS if they somehow became absolutely certain (which is impossible in itself) that there was no God, no Heaven, no Hell- no consequences beyond what you can or can’t get away with here in this life. Probably because you would then have to question whether there has been any real change (born again) in their lives. But this is a false dichotomy. As a Christian, I’m 100% convinced that I would murder all of you and take your stuff- if there were no God, no Heaven, no Hell- no consequences. I’m also convinced that each and every one of us/you would do the same.

But why? Is that answer an indictment on a fake Christian? To the contrary, it proves that without God- there is no objective standard of morality; which means there is no right or wrong- only the competing opinions of the strong. Might equals right. It proves that without God (aside from the fact that nothing would exist- but let’s pretend for argument’s sake) there would be nothing to restrain evil at all. We wouldn’t last a day.

My question to atheists:

What does it matter? If there is no afterlife, and these measly few decades are all that you have- and then… literal nothing- what does it matter? I bet you’ll say some stupid crap like “bro that’s why it matters more.” That’s total BS. That tired old line is like saying you cherish every penny you pick up off the bathroom floor at Costco.

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You made the claim that the Christian conception of morality shares many ideas with other faith systems and also drew from previous religions.

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Not drew from...concluded similar things by similar societal analysis.

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Nevertheless, many lesser ideologies have not survived due to their not withstanding the test of logic and time.

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And war, conquest, etc.

My point is that there are many religions that come to somewhat similar results with no interaction at different time periods. If morality had to be given to humans by God, that shouldn't happen. Or, a better way, is that if the argument is that morality can only be discovered by the absolute, objective truths of god, how did the others figure it out? They were never exposed to this absolute, objective truth but were able to get there somehow.

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I had to make note of the fact that you hilariously sidestepped the 300 years of intense persecution by Rome

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No. That's baked into the comment. Christianity was basically built in a lab for the oppressed populations of Rome, which isn't shocking considering when and where it began. The interesting question is what happens in the world if this DOESN'T happen, but that's another discussion.

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Adopted NOT by force, but by being convincingly persuasive and admired!

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When it became the religion of Rome, adoption thereafter did involve force, specifically after 380.

The(Eastern Roman) empire didn't fall for over 1000 years after that. We are less than 600 years past that point, so the Eastern Empire survived significantly longer as a "Christianity by force" empire than the time gap between the fall and today.

And, again, this isn't a criticism of Christianity, only an answer to the question of how it survived so long. Being adopted by the greatest empire the world has ever seen and forced upon most of the civilized world, is going to help.

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and to any extent that there were any Nazis who considered themselves Christian (Hitler and the mani Nazi party members certainly did not!) they were simply deluded.

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If you're going to play the they weren't real Christians card then I would suggest not bringing up controversial topics that Christians supported.

Otherwise you manufacture a "tails I win, heads you lose" scenario. You can bring up any terrible event in history and if Christianity is involved, you can ignore that connection. Extrapolate that to its logical conclusion and we are basically prisoners to whatever you define.

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The Nazi example is the one I posed to you as one that is diametrically opposed to the Christian moral teachings.

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Yes, and I responded. You played a card that makes any objective discussion impossible.

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Do YOU find it OBJECTIVELY wrong, since you claim there is no objective morality?

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Clearly.

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You side-stepped that question.

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There is some irony in this.

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I do. Christians do.

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Some Christians didn't.

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Until Christians began to question it!!

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In Christian nations, yes. If your implication is they were the first in terms of humanity, that's not correct. I believe the earliest known banning of slavery was in China in pre-AD times.

What rules would you say you follow now, vs what would be different after that discovery?

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What rules would you say you follow now, vs what would be different after that discovery?

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That's not possible to answer b/c I don't know what the actual rules in the hypothetical are. We've only discussed them in the abstract within the confines of the hypotheticall.

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I appreciate the reason you're falling to your aloof law instincts. But that shite speaks words you don't have to say in this court.

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There are no "law instincts" involved. I literally cannot answer the question because I literally cannot compare. What are the specific rules you're referencing? I'll respond when I know the list.

And it's in a hypothetical so it doesn't matter how long the list is.

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Do you think you live an objectively moral life?

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Perfectly moral? No. Generally moral? yes.

What moral shortcomings I have aren't any of the major issues. I've never killed somebody or acted violently towards people in some time. Nothing like that.

Could I be more empathetic? Less slothful? More charitable? Less wasteful? Do I get angry sometimes? Am I appreciative or attentive enough of my mom? Those are the types of moral things I could work on.

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As a Christian, I’m 100% convinced that I would murder all of you and take your stuff- if there were no God, no Heaven, no Hell- no consequences.

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Then I'm glad you've found restraint in your religion. Although I'd argue that estrangement from family and friends, death or injury from a victim, loss of comfort, prison, expulsion from society and/or the death penalty are all consequences.

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I’m also convinced that each and every one of us/you would do the same.

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I've somehow made it 46 years without murdering anyone, or even wanting to, but I'll certainly take care to make sure I don't start murdering everyone in the future.

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But why? Is that answer an indictment on a fake Christian? To the contrary, it proves that without God- there is no objective standard of morality; which means there is no right or wrong- only the competing opinions of the strong.

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Respectfully, claiming you would murder all of us doesn't meet the burden of proof you seem to think it does. IMO, of course.

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Even Jesus covered all of those.

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Im highlighting this part so you can reconsider.

What secular moral code preaches about charity and sloth?

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Then I'm glad you've found restraint in your religion.

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I figured someone would take it that way. What I’m actually saying is that because God is real, and Christianity is true, we have this restraint. This is why someone else said it’s basically ridiculous to even have this conversation. It’s akin to arguing with someone who believes that air doesn’t exist.

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Although I'd argue that estrangement from family and friends, death or injury from a victim, loss of comfort, prison, expulsion from society and/or the death penalty are all consequences.

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Temporal, yes. Did you bother to read my entire post?

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I've somehow made it 46 years without murdering anyone, or even wanting to, but I'll certainly take care to make sure I don't start murdering everyone in the future.

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Back to the argument of whether or not air exists. You have the benefit of Christianity to thank for this- like it (or know it) or not. It just is. You can sit there and pretend that Christianity is not necessary, only because Christianity has provided you the opportunity.