re: Suboxone is as bad or worse than true opiates

Its shitty, but its a step up from actual opiates. Suboxone helps with opiate withdrawals and doesn't have nearly as intense of a withdrawal itself. That alone makes relapses easier to avoid and makes it a little better. Still just as addictive though, and possibly more powerful too.

Feel for guys. Sincerely do.

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I thank God FOR YOUR sake that you are not of the addictive disorder

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What do you mean "of the addictive disorder?"

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If you do not have an addictive personality, that is a blessing. For those that do not, you simply look at others as if it were a simple choice. Which it is- but it’s an overwhelming draw. One that must be fought off constantly. There is no middle ground. I can’t drink. Can’t smoke. Can’t do coke. Can’t do pills. Everything I like I want to do to excess. All the time. So- it’s total abstinence. At this point I’m a week into sobriety for the first time in 10 years. Got a long way to go.

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Man I’ve heard that Suboxone is the worst but I’ve never tried any of that stuff- I’ve never been into Opiotes or pills of any type. I’m glad that you’re doing your best to kick it though, we’re routing for you.

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Well, I never had the urge to do $600 worth of suboxone in a day. With true opiates that was just a weekday..

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Are you really claiming you spent 18k per month on opiates?

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Methadone was dropping bodies left and right. I've never taken either but I have to call suboxone an improvement.

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This is very true. I know of 3 people that died from methadone but none that I know have died from suboxone. Any opiate addict will tell you that the withdrawals from Methadone are worse than heroin. Not to mention, it rots out your teeth and reacts deadly with benzos. It’s bad shite.

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Subs were supposed to be the cure all,

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They were not supposed to be a cure all. They were meant to be a pathway off opiates in the best case scenario or harm reduction- in that you're taking a controlled pill by mouth rather than what someone on the street is selling, whether it's in the mouth or through the skin one way or another.

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bupnorprine is like 200x more potent than morphine at the same dosage

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Buprenorpbine is actually only a partial agonist of the opiate receptor. I remember from my days on inpatient psych that you have to be careful giving it to people who are on an opiate or coming down because mistiming it can actually induce withdrawal (it has a higher affinity for the receptors and knocks off the full agonists).

That's just fancy science talk. What it means is that while a lower dose may be all that's necessary to reduce opioid cravings, it's also much less likely to cause respiratory depression. No, it's not ideal to have humans walking around and functioning with opiates/opioids in their system, but this at prescribed doses is significantly safer and pretty well tolerated. If it seems to affect someone heavily, you go down on the dose faster.

Yes, it's abused. The abuse potential is much lower than the "regulars" and methadone. It's long-acting, and if taken for fun at high doses, the consequences can be pretty bad, which is why it's so strictly regulated. Diversion is still very, very possible, but the current system does its best to balance helping those who need help and trying not to withhold it due to the folks who abuse it at the expense of those who need it.

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thank God FOR YOUR sake that you are not of the addictive disorder

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Indeed. It's a horrible, horrible disease that's beyond difficult to treat. Good luck.

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Hopeful Doc

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You obviously know your shite. What’s the difference between suboxone and subutex? I’m very active in the recovery community and I hear about both of these often. It seems that treatment centers prefer to give subutex when detoxing but I don’t know why.