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Started By
Message
re: Statue Controversy Spreading to Kentucky
Posted on 8/15/17 at 6:32 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 8/15/17 at 6:32 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:Moving the statutes is a reasonable request that should please almost everyone (but it won't)
They're simply voting to move the statues to Veterans Park,
0
Posted on 8/15/17 at 6:33 pm to DustyDinkleman
Radio was basically calling Bevin a racist this afternoon on the drive home.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:05 pm to AgCoug
Delaware still had over 1700 recorded slaves as late as 1890. They did not ratify the amendment because they were openly opposed to the amendment. So they officially abolished slavery sometime between 1890 and 1901, which was after abolishment in the Southern states.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:07 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Unfortunately, this was a losing battle nationally as soon as people started trying to argue they should remain based on the historical information of the men represented by them. Even when correct, that's just not an argument most people on either side of the argument are usually educated enough on to even have a real debate.
It should have always been argued as long standing historical artwork, and that's all. I'd have bet my left but 90% of NOLA' residents of all colors could not have told you jack or shite about Lee prior to the controversy and even after most of what they would have told you was only what they were repeating having read it on Facebook or Twitter. For most, Lee Circle was associated with Mardi Gras parades, not the civil War.
Now you've got white supremacists "defending" the monuments, and there is nowhere left to stand on the opposing side that does not link you to those frickers. Game over...
This is well said. There is never enough for some people. It's sad really.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:11 pm to DustyDinkleman
I kinda think Statue removal is just to kill time until the next thug gets killed by a cop. It's been a while so the statues have to die until something better comes along. The outrage has to be maintained.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:15 pm to DustyDinkleman
One of the more fricked up aspects of this whole statue thing is that cities are being converged on by outsiders of both stripes, who don't care what the actual residents want, and are no longer free to make decisions about their own cities.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:18 pm to kywildcatfanone
One thing that does annoy me is that the Breckinridge statue has nothing to do with the Confederacy or the Civil War, it's a statue of a statesman from Lexington who became Vice President. He eventually joined the Confederacy but he's still a major part of US history.
The Hunt-Morgan statue has him on a horse in full military dress, that one I get.
The Hunt-Morgan statue has him on a horse in full military dress, that one I get.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:19 pm to DayBowBow
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:20 pm to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Delaware still had over 1700 recorded slaves as late as 1890.
I can't find anything that supports this. Can you post a link, please?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:28 pm to AwesomeSauce
Maybe that's true that there were 1700 slaves in Delaware after the Civil War, maybe that's not true. I've seen no evidence of it, but I'm certainly no Delawarean historian. It doesn't change anything. If there were still slave owners in Delaware-or anywhere else for that matter-they were violating federal law. Delaware did not ratify the 13th Amendment but they had to live by it.
Who would be shocked by the fact that a bunch of slave owners didn't want to emancipate their slaves?
I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are. I think anyone with even a rudimentary education knows that slavery existed in the Union states and the Civil War had multiple causes (not just slavery).
But to state that slavery was somehow legal in Delaware, or anywhere else in the US, after the Civil War is just patently false.
Who would be shocked by the fact that a bunch of slave owners didn't want to emancipate their slaves?
I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are. I think anyone with even a rudimentary education knows that slavery existed in the Union states and the Civil War had multiple causes (not just slavery).
But to state that slavery was somehow legal in Delaware, or anywhere else in the US, after the Civil War is just patently false.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:33 pm to northshorebamaman
All I can find on the subject is that there were only 1,798 slaves left in Delaware as of the 1860 census and that 91% of the black population was already free before the civil war.
And this story from 1862:
And this story from 1862:
quote:
A bill will be introduced in the Legislature providing that every slave 35 years of age and upwards, shall be free within 90 days after its passage; and all slaves under 35 shall become free as they reach that age; and that from and after the 1st day of January, 1872, there shall not be Slavery or involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime. Males born of a slave mother after the passage of the act, shall be held as indented servants until the age of 21, and females until they are 18. The above provisions are based upon the condition that Congress will, at present session, engage to pay to the State of Delaware,in bonds of the United States, bearing interest at the rate of six per centum per annum, the sum of $900,000, in ten annual installments, $90,000 to be payable on some day before the first day of September, 1862, to establish a fund for securing full and [???] compensation to the owners of slaves who shall have been divested of their property by force of the act in question. The bill provides for the appointment of an assessor in each county, who shall estimate the value of the slaves, and fix the price which shall be paid for them. The salary of the State Treasurer shall be raised when the act goes into operation from $500 to $1,000, on account of his increased responsibilities and duties in making payment to the owners for their slaves. If Congress will make the appropriation of $900,000 for this purpose, we think every man in the State will esteem the act calculated to promote the interests of our people. Many of the slaveholders would gladly exchange their slaves for money, which they could use in payment for their lands and contemplated improvements. We are informed that many of the largest slaveholders favor the measure.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:45 pm to northshorebamaman
I may have misinterpreted the legislative passage of abolition which Sussex and Kent county reps refused to sign. Sussex and Kent had just over 1700 slaves between the two counties and possibly the 1890 was when the remnants of the holdover slave owners were all found and it was officially abolished. It's been a while since I read up on Delaware, I became intrigued with the struggle between UD and Deleware St and then animosity that existed between the two. It's very interesting between them Maryland and Kentucky how much Lincoln had to walk the line politically in the waning days of the Civil War and Johnson in the years to follow.
The more I search for the information I found a few years ago it seems I may have mistaken the articles and letters to have undermine the 13th when they were merely attempts to by estranged slave owners and enabling politicians.
The more I search for the information I found a few years ago it seems I may have mistaken the articles and letters to have undermine the 13th when they were merely attempts to by estranged slave owners and enabling politicians.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:56 pm to AwesomeSauce
I just ran across an article that says the last slaves in Sussex County were owned by farmer James Anderson and freed in 1865.
LINK
And this:
LINK
LINK
And this:
quote:
Only in December 1865, when the 13th Amendment went into effect on a national scale, did slavery cease in Delaware. By then there were only a few hundred left. Many male slaves had run off in 1863 and 1864 and gone to the cities to enlist in black regiments.
LINK
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:14 pm to northshorebamaman
Apparently my retention of the dates and numbers was not as well as I remembered. The dates and numbers all stood out for some reason, but apparently I was confusing the opposition by the legislature to the 1862 bill to that of the 13th amendment.
My original point, albeit now apparently completely wrought with incorrect numbers thanks to my reliance on my memory, was that associating CSA statues with slavery is naive. Slavery existed and was contested on both sides. Union generals used slaves and held onto them post war even including a form of indentured servitude because "it's hard to find good help".
My original point, albeit now apparently completely wrought with incorrect numbers thanks to my reliance on my memory, was that associating CSA statues with slavery is naive. Slavery existed and was contested on both sides. Union generals used slaves and held onto them post war even including a form of indentured servitude because "it's hard to find good help".
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:18 pm to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Apparently my retention of the dates and numbers was not as well as I remembered.
It happens, man.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:28 pm to northshorebamaman
I'm getting old brother. They say the memory is the first thing to go
Posted on 8/17/17 at 8:21 pm to AwesomeSauce
So, "Breaking News" just across the TV. City council voted to move statues. Cameras in the council chamber showed the vote, and several black people hugging each other.
Those statues have been in their current location for decades. I don't care personally if they move them, but hugging about it. I guess I don't get that.
Can someone explain why to me? For decades they were not a cause of concern for their location to anyone.
Those statues have been in their current location for decades. I don't care personally if they move them, but hugging about it. I guess I don't get that.
Can someone explain why to me? For decades they were not a cause of concern for their location to anyone.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 8:23 pm to DustyDinkleman
quote:
located in Lexington's Cheapside Park, one of the south's most prominent slave trading markets before and during the Civil War
Well that's fricked up
Posted on 8/17/17 at 8:24 pm to kywildcatfanone
Blacks are the worst.
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