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re: Starting a Fencing and Decking Company
Posted on 12/16/18 at 2:35 am to nugget
Posted on 12/16/18 at 2:35 am to nugget
It was a dig after a dig after a dig. Your response appears that you did not read the rest of my post. If you did and still responded with the LA BoC, which will give most of what you asked for, I can't help any further.
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Posted on 12/16/18 at 2:43 am to nugget
Might want to run that IC idea by your CPA/tax attorney first.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 2:51 am to nugget
Yeah....don't ever count on contractors until you've worked with them extensively. You'll ruin yourself waiting on them or fixing their bad jobs
Posted on 12/16/18 at 5:41 am to nugget
I wish I had the balls to do something like this. Alas, the wife would probably not enjoy slumming it up for a few years like in college
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:14 am to nugget
I’m not in the fencing business but I’ve done enough residential remodels to know I think it’s prettyq laughable you think you can run a full time business using IC’s only. Maybe to scale, but you are going to need at least one crew of employees that rely on showing up on time to be paid.
If you or your dad are not planning on being on site building fences daily until you get your business up and running in a year or 2, then you are wasting your time. You have no idea about the business, have very little fence experience, and you think you can come in and just do the office work and make money without the grunt work? Come on OP.
IC’s are not allowed to use your equipment, be told when to work, or how to do the job. Basically you have a job and they do it for you on their time. That’s a terrible way to run a business. The only way to make money that way is to charge extremely high prices. Again, good luck starting out getting business by being high.
If you or your dad are not planning on being on site building fences daily until you get your business up and running in a year or 2, then you are wasting your time. You have no idea about the business, have very little fence experience, and you think you can come in and just do the office work and make money without the grunt work? Come on OP.
IC’s are not allowed to use your equipment, be told when to work, or how to do the job. Basically you have a job and they do it for you on their time. That’s a terrible way to run a business. The only way to make money that way is to charge extremely high prices. Again, good luck starting out getting business by being high.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:20 am to baldona
quote:
IC’s are not allowed to use your equipment, be told when to work, or how to do the job. Basically you have a job and they do it for you on their time. That’s a terrible way to run a business.
We don’t do fencing/decking but our place does upkeep and maintenance on commercial property and use IC’s for pretty much everything. It’s all about finding people who are great at their craft and are as money hungry as you are, if not more.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:26 am to baldona
quote:
If you or your dad are not planning on being on site building fences daily until you get your business up and running in a year or 2, then you are wasting your time. You have no idea about the business, have very little fence experience, and you think you can come in and just do the office work and make money without the grunt work? Come on OP
Was gonna post this. You picked a business with extremely low barrier to entry (ie you) don’t have supplier connections (ie you’re paying retail on materials) and then you throw on this whole 1099 issue (they’re going to frick you over and not be as responsive as employees)
Best of luck but this sounds like a starshot
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:35 am to nugget
yep
This post was edited on 3/14/19 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:58 am to nugget
quote:
he would handle bidding and the crews
I'll be over at your mom's house while pops is working
Posted on 12/16/18 at 8:48 am to nugget
quote:
hanks man, I appreciate the sincere advice. I think ICs will allow us to scale faster, at least since we already have some lined up that are trusted. Once we (hopefully) outgrow these couple guys, I'm sure it's going to be a little tougher.
I ran something similar. Don’t count on ic’s and always have a plan to cover the amount of work you got. Make sure you negotiate up front rates and make sure you can be profitable. When I first started out, i was trying to establish market share so I over paid my ic’s to provide enough labor to cover all my work. Also, IC’s will leave you in a heart beat for better money even if they are contracted to you. Also a lot of ic’s, especially Hispanic ic’s go home for Xmas and the holidays so if you have work then, you are f’d. You are gonna want to have a 20/80 mix of employees to ic. But for starting out ic’s are great. Just make sure the rates allow you to make profit and that they are insured.
I’m not a fan of this option but your competitors may be. Other option is for your dad to run a crew of Hispanic guys he picks up from Home Depot and pay them. You can get cheap labor to do this sort of grunt work while your dad handles the more technical part of the job. Literally this is the sort of work that he can learn a few Spanglish phrases and point. He may even build up a small regular crew of these guys who will be happy to make cash. But this options has all negatives too so weigh your options.
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 8:54 am
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:02 am to baldona
quote:
I’m not in the fencing business but I’ve done enough residential remodels to know I think it’s prettyq laughable you think you can run a full time business using IC’s only. Maybe to scale, but you are going to need at least one crew of employees that rely on showing up on time to be paid.
Well the thing is, I already have the people to rely on. They've been working for us for years. I'd love to go the W2 route but that's not feasible until you have enough work.
quote:
If you or your dad are not planning on being on site building fences daily until you get your business up and running in a year or 2, then you are wasting your time. You have no idea about the business, have very little fence experience, and you think you can come in and just do the office work and make money without the grunt work? Come on OP.
Never said anything him not being on site. However, he doesn't need to be doing to manual labor for us to be profitable.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:10 am to nugget
you’ll need a specialty license in LA. Since you included decking in your scope you may as well go ahead and get a building construction license in case you want to do arbors or other enclosed structures.
you’ll need GL and WC.
you’ll want to have some sort of drafting software which will make your life exponentially easier.
you’ll be better off hiring a crew of direct reports to get going, and then as you add casuals you can put one direct report on each casual crew. You’ll need to carefully train one guy per crew minimum on equipment and safety. You must be zero tolerance on injury or you will quickly be out of business.
draft and stick to a simple contract that holds you harmless for existing conditions above and below ground as well easements, property boundaries etc. finally, pick a niche and stick to it
you’ll need GL and WC.
you’ll want to have some sort of drafting software which will make your life exponentially easier.
you’ll be better off hiring a crew of direct reports to get going, and then as you add casuals you can put one direct report on each casual crew. You’ll need to carefully train one guy per crew minimum on equipment and safety. You must be zero tolerance on injury or you will quickly be out of business.
draft and stick to a simple contract that holds you harmless for existing conditions above and below ground as well easements, property boundaries etc. finally, pick a niche and stick to it
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:45 am to nugget
A lot of contractors buy their material directly from the mfg or lumber the mill. This gives them a huge advantage when bidding jobs.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:48 am to nugget
quote:
Never said anything him not being on site. However, he doesn't need to be doing to manual labor for us to be profitable.
You realize that profitable is different than worth your time to make a profit? What the heck does someone do on site for a fencing job and not do manual labor? It’s not rocket science, it’s 95% manual labor. Bidding and buying materials is extremely easy. Most guys in fencing can bid you almost blind by just knowing sq ft and gates.
You are doing this back arse words so I’m just trying to help and save your time. I don’t see anyway it will work. You can’t simple step into a manual labor job with very little experience and expect to hire contractors and just make money.
First off, if you are a small business starting out the first thing people expect is being able to work immediately and get the job done quick. With IC’s they will be tied up with other jobs.
The way I would expect most to start off is a 2 man crew with one being the owner and the other an employee. Owner puts up fence from 6:30-3 and quotes at the end of the day, does book keeping and advertising outside of that.
If you don’t have enough work for a single crew, how are you going to make any profit and keep your IC’s busy enough to care to work for you?
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:51 am to johnnyrocket
quote:
A lot of contractors buy their material directly from the mfg or lumber the mill. This gives them a huge advantage when bidding jobs.
Yep buy in bulk and reuse what they didn’t for a previous jobs.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:54 am to baldona
quote:
With IC’s they will be tied up with other jobs.
This whole, "I already have these guys lined up" seems to be lost on you.
quote:
You are doing this back arse words so I’m just trying to help and save your time. I don’t see anyway it will work. You can’t simple step into a manual labor job with very little experience and expect to hire contractors and just make money.
I know multiple other guys with a relatively similar model. They're not in fencing, but irrigation, countertops, and a couple other trades. I can handle making the numbers work.
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 10:59 am
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:00 am to baldona
Balding always speaking the truth.
Let’s put all the logistics aside. To me subcontracting a sub contractors job seems like there would be very narrow margins. How can you be competitive with someone who does everything in house? Are you just hoping that they only get one quote? Or that your sales and marketing will win people over. How much would you have to tack on to your ICs price to make a profit and cover your overhead? 30,40%?
Let’s put all the logistics aside. To me subcontracting a sub contractors job seems like there would be very narrow margins. How can you be competitive with someone who does everything in house? Are you just hoping that they only get one quote? Or that your sales and marketing will win people over. How much would you have to tack on to your ICs price to make a profit and cover your overhead? 30,40%?
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:41 am to nugget
Where are you in Louisiana? I may be able to help you out with materials if you are serious about this.
PS-Don't get into Access Control until you can have someone dedicated to it full time. You can make good money with it, but you can lose your arse with it too.
PS-Don't get into Access Control until you can have someone dedicated to it full time. You can make good money with it, but you can lose your arse with it too.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 12:14 pm to nugget
Use this one for now.
ss2018callie@gmail.com
What part of Louisiana?
ss2018callie@gmail.com
What part of Louisiana?
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