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re: Settle a drunken argument: Tyson vs Bruce Lee no holds barred KO match
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:29 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:29 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
To suggest he was not training precisely for combat is silly. It was all he did.
This is also the same as saying that since my fiancé is in medical school studying all day everyday that she doesn't need to do her residency before she jumps into her field. Just study then go operate on a brain beautiful idea.
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Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:29 pm to fisherbm1112
quote:
Training and fighting are two different animals. Ask a soldier how training was compared to live combat.
So Iraq beat us in Desert Storm? I must have missed that.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:30 pm to boom roasted
quote:
No one knows how everything would play out. It's purely hypothetical and it will remain that way. Who would you take?
Probably Tyson in his prime because of how athletic he was and he has such a size advantage. But I wouldn't be surprised if Lee came out on top. I don't think it's as clear cut as some believe.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:30 pm to fisherbm1112
LINK
This is what Tyson looks like barehanded and F'ing off, which is all Bruce ever did. How anyone can say a fight between these two would end well for Lee is beyond me.
This is what Tyson looks like barehanded and F'ing off, which is all Bruce ever did. How anyone can say a fight between these two would end well for Lee is beyond me.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:31 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
So, there are hundreds of people in the US who weight 500 pounds or more. So, that means they could break off their rascal scooter in Bruce Lee's (or Tyson's, for that matter) arse?
You once again aren't comparing apples to apples. I am talking about a man that was in optimum shape for his frame 100lbs heavier than the man that was also in optimum shape for his frame. People in this thread are straying entirely too far from reality.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:33 pm to Festus
quote:I think Tyson would put a hurting on him, but I wouldn't be completely shocked if Lee wins.
Probably Tyson in his prime because of how athletic he was and he has such a size advantage. But I wouldn't be surprised if Lee came out on top. I don't think it's as clear cut as some believe.
It's the "Lee would destroy Tyson" people that are throwing me for a loop.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:34 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
So Iraq beat us in Desert Storm? I must have missed that.
You are still skirting that fact that what I am saying is training is no where like what live combat is. You are dense and refuse to be wrong. I am not saying training is not necessary but one who believes that training is enough is a fool.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:35 pm to Festus
quote:
Probably Tyson in his prime because of how athletic he was and he has such a size advantage
I say it in all threads like this.
There are weight classes in all martial sports for a reason. I once saw a fight way back in a tough man competition that was not unlike what we are discussing. In one bracket, this martial arts dude who went about 180 was kicking arse and taking names. He was f'n good. The other bracket some lumbering red neck with little skill but about 260lbs of muscles was killing it.
When the two met, it lasted less than 30 seconds. Lumbering dude won.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:36 pm to fisherbm1112
quote:
I am talking about a man that was in optimum shape for his frame 100lbs heavier than the man that was also in optimum shape for his frame.
I posted a picture of Tyson at the Berbick fight - what I would consider his prime (or near it) - 20 years old, 215 pounds and not an ounce of fat. Extremely quick hands, and would have been a match for any man in history in an unarmed fight.
Just not willing to concede an automatic win over any person, anywhere, particularly not someone as well honed as Bruce Lee.
But I do understand the argument. Tyson was small for a heavyweight - primarily due to his stubby limbs - again - the smart move would have had him fight as a light-heavy - there is no good reason to believe he was going to be able to stand up to the Trevor Berbick, Riddick Bowe, even Lennox Lewis who was half a foot taller and 15 pounds heavier.
Giving up that much size and reach should have precluded Tyson from fighting at the heavyweight division. However, his aggressiveness, his chin (early in his career, I thought he had a great chin - from the Douglas fight on, it got worse and worse), and hand speed got him to the top.
Lee, in a similar vein, had skills to compensate his relative lack of size - perhaps enough to take Mike Tyson - perhaps not (not in a boxing match, of course, but in a street fight.)
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:38 pm to SettleDown
quote:
When the two met, it lasted less than 30 seconds. Lumbering dude won.
Ali beat Foreman, though...no question.
(ETA: And to reinforce how different Tyson was - his "lean" weight of 215 to 220 - and virtually no fat - at 5'10" or 5'11" is comparable to Ali and Foreman who fought at 216 1/2 and 220, respectively in Zaire - despite being about 6'3" and 6'4", respectively.)
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:39 pm to Ace Midnight
In close quarters I take Tyson.
In an open area I take Lee.
In an open area I take Lee.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:42 pm to boom roasted
quote:
It's the "Lee would destroy Tyson" people that are throwing me for a loop.
The only thing that I could see possibly happening would be if Lee baffled him early and knocked him out of his game and he never recovered. But Tyson could take a punch so it's hard for me to imagine.
Honestly, I can see an argument for both sides, just depending on the unknowns that came into play when the fight started. My gut tells me that Tyson's size and strength, with his athleticism, would win.
Saying Lee is not an athlete, though, is borderline mental retardation.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:42 pm to Ace Midnight
Can we switch this to Bruce Lee vs Fedor Emelianenko (6'0" and a pudgy 225)?
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:46 pm to boom roasted
quote:
Can we switch this to Bruce Lee vs Fedor Emelianenko?
Ha! Lee would be killed. Lee vs. Tyson wouldn't even be close. If people want a better matchup they should pick someone that would at least be in Lee's weight class. They would also do better to pick a boxer and not an MMA guy becase Lee would be literally killed if he fought a top level MMA fighter. He might have some kind of off chance, although unlikely, against a boxer in his weightclass.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:48 pm to MrFreakinMiyagi
quote:
Yes, but you think that Lee landing a leg kick means that Tyson's leg gets broken, which wouldn't be the case at all.
Wait, what? You don't think Lee could do a quick hold or kick to Tyson's knee and break it? really???
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:50 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:If he can get him in a hold, sure. But I don't see him kicking and breaking Tyson's leg or knee. Lee pulling off a kneebar in a real fight is a different story.
Wait, what? You don't think Lee could do a quick hold or kick to Tyson's knee and break it? really???
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:51 pm to boom roasted
quote:
I think Tyson would put a hurting on him, but I wouldn't be completely shocked if Lee wins.
It's the "Lee would destroy Tyson" people that are throwing me for a loop.
And it's the "Tyson would destroy Lee," who are also misguided.
Goes both ways really.
quote:
I think Tyson would put a hurting on him, but I wouldn't be completely shocked if Lee wins.
The hyperbole from the "Destroy"-minded folks makes everyone get defensive. Well those and the Lee was only an actor and a great "marketer" crowd. Equally ridiculous.
You could distill the argument, agree to give up some assumptions of Lee and then look at it objectively.
Could Tyson, in a no holds barred match, beat a world-class 145 lb. MMA fighter?
I'm not saying he can or can't, but it isn't clear cut. In either direction. And, if you go ahead and assume some of the stories about Lee are true, then neither is it against Lee.
The discussion about Lee becomes problematic because we start to talk about whether he was or wasn't an actor, when the ACTUAL question is:
Can a 145 lb. peak-conditioned fighter trained in more than a few styles focused on real, damaging fighting (not tradition), take on a 220 lb. World Champion Heavyweight Boxer?
Take away the names people, they evoke too much emotion.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:55 pm to Freauxzen
quote:My issues and most others as well is he wasnt a fighter. He trained his arse off in fighting disciplines, but he didnt actually fight. Lee was a crossfitter basically, his sport was working out
Can a 145 lb. peak-conditioned fighter
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:56 pm to Freauxzen
The only thing that hangs me up about picking Lee is that he never truly competed. I'm sure he sparred and trained in all the different styles, but training and competing are two different things.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:59 pm to boom roasted
quote:
The only thing that hangs me up about picking Lee is that he never truly competed. I'm sure he sparred and trained in all the different styles, but training and competing are two different things.
But that isn't the question. We aren't even talking about fighting, we get into the subjective argument about what is or isn't training, competition, fighting etc. It makes no difference.
You do know that Lee didn't compete because his belief was that competitive fighting was worthless because of limitation. I'm not saying that makes him better (and it is a philosophical take, and maybe some would say "convenient").
If you can't not think about Lee, then, the you really have one question to answer:
1) If all the stories about Bruce Lee are true, can we get a few hits on Tyson and take him down before Tyson does the same? Yes or No.
If Lee was only an actor and all the stories are false, then of course the answer is no. So let's assume the other direction.
Then we're just arguing over whether or not Bruce was the real deal, not the actual question of the fight.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 2:00 pm
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